Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Tricky]

personally I wouldn't want any creature to suffer for being more truthful than the christian god, not even a so called devil, and from I can tell that was the devils biggest sin.

Yep. He told the truth about the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. God did not.

And doesn't Lucifer actually mean "light-bringer"?

as for what "team" i'm on, none that I'm aware of, I'm not really into sports cept maybe a nascar race every once in a while

Then you're okay by me, unless you're a damn Tony Stewart fan.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[gypsey]

Tricky
Yep. He told the truth about the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden. God did not.

And doesn't Lucifer actually mean "light-bringer"?

seems like he was the one telling the truth thru the whole bible
and yup lightbringer it is

Tricky
Then you're okay by me, unless you're a damn Tony Stewart fan.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

not a stewart fan he irritates the heck outa me for some reason, anyway
my driver retired years ago but I kinda like Jimmy Johnson
and thank for the welcome

 

[Tricky]

seems like he was the one telling the truth thru the whole bible
and yup lightbringer it is

Well, I don't know about through the whole Bible. I think both he and God were deceiving Job. But if you're looking for consistancy, the Bible is not the place to look.

not a stewart fan he irritates the heck outa me for some reason, anyway
my driver retired years ago but I kinda like Jimmy Johnson
and thank for the welcome

Jimmy's okay. I like Greg Biffle, but my favorite drivers died some years ago, Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki. I liked Davy's dad Bobby too (They're from my hometown).

There's a thread on Nascar over in the sports forum. I suppose that's where this stuff ought to go.

And you're welcome. Hope you stick around for a while.

 

[Tricky]

BTW. I can't believe this one hasn't shown up yet, but then, I've seen several variations of it.

"A man needs a religion like a fish needs a bicycle."

 

[joobz]

seems like he was the one telling the truth thru the whole bible
and yup lightbringer it is

not a stewart fan he irritates the heck outa me for some reason, anyway
my driver retired years ago but I kinda like Jimmy Johnson
and thank for the welcome

I don't know Jimmy Johnson or Tony Stewart, but I am a fan of Jimmy Stewart.

 

[gypsey]

Tricky
Well, I don't know about through the whole Bible. I think both he and God were deceiving Job. But if you're looking for consistancy, the Bible is not the place to look.

I know but he stil seems the more honest of the two

joobz

I don't know Jimmy Johnson or Tony Stewart, but I am a fan of Jimmy Stewart.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Cute, but hell isn' going to be a laughing matter so I don't think one should make fun of it.

And the devil isn't some weird looking guy dressed in red with a pitch fork. He was the most beautiful angel until he rebelled against God. He still appears to people as a angel to see who he can deceive. But he's just a scum bag I can't wait till God gets rid of myself! Looks are definitely deceiving!

Do you think I'm bad for wanting to see the devil burn in hell? I always said I never wanted to see anyone go there, but not him and his ugly, lying, corrupt, perverted friends.

Bid the devil fairwell because his time is close at hand! And if I were you I'd make sure you weren't on the losing team.

Christians traditionally think of Satan as Lucifer, God's enemy, who rebelled against Him out of pride and then caused Adam and Eve to sin. But, as Kelly shows, this portrayal is not biblical but a scenario invented by the early Fathers of the Church which became the 'New Biography of Satan'. The 'Original Biography' must be reconstructed from the New Testament where Satan is the same sort of celestial functionary we see in the Book of Job - appointed to govern the world, specifically to monitor and test human beings. But he is brutal and deceitful in his methods, and Jesus predicts that his rule will soon come to an end. Kelly traces the further developments of the 'New Biography': humankind's inherited guilt, captivity by Satan, and punishment in Hell at his hands. This profile of Satan remains dominant, but Kelly urges a return to the 'Original Biography of Satan'.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780521604024&itm=7

Public Radio interview with author

 

[Darth Rotor]

Man, what ever happened to people accepting gentle ribbing? Are all the Flame Warriors becoming Crybaby? Where are the Kung Fu Masters and Eagle Scouts these days?

I'd like to know where all the crybabies come from too, but given the density of them on JREF forums, I'll take your and TA's advice and be more clear regarding any mockery I engage in the future. (We know that is a when, not an if.) As with the TS1234 and guns deal on the CT forum, being vague is an obstacle to communication . . . and what none of us wants here is "a failyuh to communicate." We're all "just trying to get our minds right, boss."

I bet my boy TA can eat fifty eggs.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

BTW, I know it's time consuming, but I hope at some point you have time to reply to the main body of my previous post. I know your adoring fans are all demanding your time though.

More like wife, kids, dog, and boss.

What I replied to seemed the culmination of the general line of thinking we were discussing, about carrots and sticks, if not chickens and eggs. The theme was consistent, and I didn't see us getting much further than we had gotten. I am not trying to reconvert you. As Huntster might say (sad to see him suspended) you'll either hear the call again or not, depending on what you are listening for. I have faith that your heart will guide you correctly in either case.

So, I regret that I'll disappoint you regarding our interesting conversation, I am grateful for your exposition. Some food for thought there.

@ Garrette (regarding works and Faith)

As they are separated in scripture, I don't see how they can not be separated

I see it as an artificial distinction, though perhaps useful in some contexts. Day and night are not sharply defined, they blend in to one another at both evening and morning twilight. They are in reality part of a continuum. So too works and faith, part of a continuum of life.

I think that the ying and yang illustration almost captures this in graphic form, except that works and faith are not necessarily in opposition to one another, but more like the yolk and white of an egg: two parts of the whole. Of course, you can scramble them together, and make a lovely omlette. An inexact model in any event.

DR

 

[Tricky]

More like wife, kids, dog, and boss.

Shoot the dog. Then you'll have enough time.

What I replied to seemed the culmination of the general line of thinking we were discussing, about carrots and sticks, if not chickens and eggs. The theme was consistent, and I didn't see us getting much further than we had gotten.

With rare exceptions, we don't get anwhere in these discussions except for understanding other people better. Once in a while you will catch someone here in mid-epiphany, but not what you'd call an ever-day occurrance. Still, just the understanding is worth it, IMHO.

I am not trying to reconvert you. As Huntster might say (sad to see him suspended) you'll either hear the call again or not, depending on what you are listening for. I have faith that your heart will guide you correctly in either case.

Nor I you, although I am trying to show why my reasoning is superior. I mean, if I didn't think it was right, I'd change it. And I have changed it many times, though usually in subtle ways.

I might take this moment, though, to differentiate between "correct" and "true". I think "correct" is a concept that varies depending on the situation. Correct manners at Bubbadeaux's Crawdad Shack is different from correct manners at the Waldorf. Christianity may be the correct path for many people, as they would be miserable without it, just as atheists would be miserable if forced into Christianity.

But "True" with a capital T should be unaffected by perspective. You cannot have two mutually contradicting things which are both True. Situational truth can only lead to conflict. It will not set you free.

I relinquish the soap box.

So, I regret that I'll disappoint you regarding our interesting conversation, I am grateful for your exposition.

Bastige.

Some food for thought there.

I wish so many people weren't on diets.

I see it as an artificial distinction, though perhaps useful in some contexts. Day and night are not sharply defined, they blend in to one another at both evening and morning twilight. They are in reality part of a continuum. So too works and faith, part of a continuum of life.

So you're saying that there aren't any absolutes!!!??? Heretic!

 

[Paulhoff]

You know human are very funny animals (I doubt that animals would like to be grouped with these stinky apes), those humans have a speech area of the brain that in some seems to be way overactive in a way that they have to go on and on about something using thousands of words and saying little if nothing at all, but using words in such numbers as if they will change reality, present company excluded, mmmmm.

Paul

 

[Mr Clingford]

You know human are very funny animals (I doubt that animals would like to be group with these stinky apes), those humans have a speech area of the brain that in some seems to be way overactive in a way that they have to go on and on about something using thousands of words and saying little if nothing at all, but using words in such numbers as if they will change reality, present company excluded, mmmmm.

Paul

I like the self-referential irony of your post, Paul.

 

[Paulhoff]

You’re right, I never get right to the point, only because of the rules, lucky you.

Paul

 

[Tricky]

You’re right, I never get right to the point, only because of the rules, lucky you.

Which rules prevent you from getting to the point?

 

[Paulhoff]

Pick one, anyone, I would expect more from you, luckily I will see Randi in a couple of weeks and have some sanity to talk to. There is a CFI First Supper next month I will be going too, and some other meeting that they have every week too that look good.

Paul

 

[Foster Zygote]

So what does the devil look like?

He's a charming rascal.

 

[Tricky]

Pick one, anyone, I would expect more from you, luckily I will see Randi in a couple of weeks and have some sanity to talk to. There is a CFI First Supper next month I will be going too, and some other meeting that they have every week too that look good.

Really? You want me to pick one? Gosh, its so hard. Let's have a look.

1) You will not post anything that is considered to be potentially criminal. The posting of computer viruses, child pornography, or links to computer viruses or child pornography is prohibited. Posts made under circumstances indicating a considered likelihood of inciting a violent or felonious act, or a subjective intention or knowledge that its content will be used for, or in furtherance of, any criminal purpose are also prohibited. Such posts will be moved offline and referred to proper legal channels.

So if this is the one, that means that in order to "get to the point", you must break the law. Must be a very serious point.

2) You will not post anything that is considered indecent, pornographic, obscene, or contains excessive reference to violence.

Wow! That must be some point you have! Woo baby!

3) You will not post any commercial advertisements.

Gosh, your point is part of a commercial? Which one? Head On?

4) You will not post "copyright-protected" material in its entirety, including "hotlinking" to images or other media.

Now this one I can understand, but it is a minor problem, easily circumvented. If your point is somewhere in copyright-protected material, you can tell us where it is without hotlinking it. You can also quote portions of this kind of material provided you give credit.

5) You will not post anything that demonstrates a clear and present danger to the welfare of another person, or otherwise tends to create alarm or apprehension that the welfare of any person is in imminent jeopardy.

I certainly hope this is not the rule that is holding you back. Please assure us that you have no need to violate this rule in order to make your point.

6) You will not "spam" or "flood" the Forum.

I suppose this could be it, though I've not seen evidence of it. If you feel the need to repeat your point, just change a word or two in each of your posts. You'll probably slip it by.

7) You may only have one membership account. Multiple accounts (sock puppets) are not permitted.

Yeah, it is a bummer that you can't have "Haulpoff" make your points for you. Of course, even if he did, how would we know it was your point?

8) You will not post profanity. You will not use profanity in our forums, and will neither post with language or content that is obscene, sexually oriented, or sexually suggestive nor link to sites that contain such content.

Let me guess. This is the one. You can't make your point without resorting to foul language. What can I say? Buy a thesaurus.

9) You will not post a person's private information that is not otherwise publicly available.

I'm pretty sure this isn't it. I doubt you have anyones private information. Of course you could be just dying to post stuff from private messages. Unless you post personal info, that's not strictly against the rules. Most people here would consider it a slimy thing to do though.

Well, have fun at TAM. I'm very jealous. I like so many of the people there. I even like the ones I disagree with here. Meeting a person in the flesh makes all the difference. Perhaps you wouldn't even feel the need to curse at them after you've met them.

I'm sorry if I have disappointed you, but I try to be as straightforward as I can here. Even though I agree with you on most philosophical issues, I think your manners could use a little work. PM me if you want to talk about it without worrying about the rules.

 

[Paulhoff]

I am not worry about the rules, there are many forums that I am on and one you have to kill someone before being thrown off. You are not one of the wordy ones for starters, the one not here now and ignored by me is. I will not be going to the TAM this year because of the money for my move that I wrote to you about, I will see Randi at the monthly meeting, he likes to pick on me and says my wife is easy when I does a little slight of hand on her. He is one of only about 3 that I know personally so far that have not disappointed me. My post is about the religious ones, they think if they can word it just right it will be true, they are so limited in thinking about the universe in general, and if you think that they need help, have fun, it is a wasted effort.

Paul

 

[Tricky]

I I will not be going to the TAM this year because of the money for my move that I wrote to you about, I will see Randi at the monthly meeting, he likes to pick on me and says my wife is easy when I does a little slight of hand on her. He is one of only about 3 that I know personally so far that have not disappointed me.

Ah, my mistake. I didn't read carefully. When you said you were going to see Randi, I assumed it was at TAM.

Well, now I am even more jealous that you get to hobnob with Randi regularly. He truly is a great man, though I have a few differences with him as well. I'm betting he's glad for that. He wouldn't want to be an object of blind worship.

My post is about the religious ones, they think if they can word it just right it will be true, they are so limited in thinking about the universe in general, and if you think that they need help, have fun, it is a wasted effort.

We are all limited in our thinking about the universe, but each in different ways. Certainly neither of us is capable of thinking about the universe the way an astrophysicist is. But we also may be limited in other ways than just ignorance. If I cannot understand how a religious person thinks about the universe, then that limits me. That is why I try to find out how they believe, even when I don't agree. If you cannot communicate with a person, then you have no hope of ever making them understand why you believe what you believe. All you'll do is fight. Unproductively.

 

[Spidey13]

There's a thread on Nascar over in the sports forum. I suppose that's where this stuff ought to go.

Damn right! I get on this forum to get away from all the NASCAR fans I deal with every day. Take it elsewhere!

grumble grumble grumble