Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Freethinker]

Now, I'd suggest if you tried to pull that kind of conflation anywhere but in here, you'd have 'em chomping on you from all sides! Fortunately, I don't give a toss about that kind of crap, so I'll just pass on that I fear, like many atheists, your guide to the christian god is slanted by seeing too many fundamental christians.

I think you'll find that Huntster's opinion is the prevailing one - the god-thing sees it all but didn't cause it all.

How is trying to return the conversation to the original subject conflation? Hunster took a comment about cancer and converted it over to freewill. I never disagreed with his comments about freewill, I merely pointed out that that was not the subject of my comment. I also questioned the idea that "the god-thing sees it all but didn't cause it all." when daily we are bombarded with people thanking god for letting us find our keys and other trivial crap, while never saying "up yours god" for making it rain on our day off.

 

[jimlintott]

Take atheists, for example. I think they have a screwed up concept of God, and they don't seem to agree, do they? But as long as they don't break the law, what do you do?

I would just like to point out that I am atheist and I insist that I actually have no concept of god. I have heard a wide spectrum of definitions and read pages of people spinning their wheels philosophically but as yet the concept of god remains completely unfathomable to me.

I would say that the most common definition I encounter is that god is something that lives in the hearts and minds of believers. Well that is fine if you realise that that definition basically admits that god is only an idea and not real. The most patently outrageous definitions are usually involving an actual physical being who not only created but actually micromanages all of reality. My brain basically seg faults on this. I cannot even begin to imagine such a thing.

This is why I tend to cringe when I'm accused of denying god or not being able to show why god doesn't exist. I really honestly have no actual concept of god that works inside my head.


Thanks

Carry on.

 

[Mr Clingford]

Mate. Read from cover to cover several times, and always trying to keep it in the context of itself as well.

You daft bugger! Are you saying you have read through the whole of Leviticus and Deuteronomy more than once? Rather you than me (snore).

I'd be bold enough to presume that, with your attitude, you'd be a life-long christian rather than a more-recent convert? Don't tell me that the only two non-hypocritical christians on the net are both in a sceptics' forum?!!??!!

You've been on the wrong sites then (fundy ones by any chance?).

 

[The Atheist]

...when daily we are bombarded with people thanking god for letting us find our keys and other trivial crap, while never saying "up yours god" for making it rain on our day off.

Not to mention how many times he gets thanked for winning some game or other while 7 million children starve to death in Asia and Africa.

What's the common thread? Humans. You can't have it both ways and I think True Christians^TM know that.

 

[The Atheist]

I would just like to point out that I am atheist and I insist that I actually have no concept of god. I have heard a wide spectrum of definitions and read pages of people spinning their wheels philosophically but as yet the concept of god remains completely unfathomable to me.

That's as good as any!

That's the part I like best about this whole god/atheist business, there are no rules. Hell, you can become a Wiccan and design your own one. Lots of their ones are so much less boring than the christian one, too.

 

[The Atheist]

You daft bugger! Are you saying you have read through the whole of Leviticus and Deuteronomy more than once? Rather you than me (snore).

I think it wasn't until about the third time that it made any sense at all!

You've been on the wrong sites then (fundy ones by any chance?).

I'd have to confess that I haven't spent a lot of time looking for christian sites to go to, so there might well be some where it's approached with at least as much rationality as christianity allows. I've had some of my most enjoyable debates against old-school theologians. They can't often understand me, but I can understand them.

If there is one out there, let me know, I'd love to got there.

Most of the sites I go to aren't anything to do with religion or scepticism; they vary from politics to sport (mostly) along with a couple of special-interest sites. I can't say the people I talk to online are a fair cross-section of christianity either, because I always use this name - or a very close facsimile of it - and fundamental christians are pretty wont to say something most of the time. Also, the ones I bait usually have the fish-thing on the back of their car, I'd say.

It's been suggested that if I weren't quite so in-your-face, I might find more rational christians.

Probably true.

 

[Mr Clingford]

I think it wasn't until about the third time that it made any sense at all!

Stone the blasphemer for suggesting they make sense. Actually, would you tell me. Remember that you are an abomination unto the Lord!

I'd have to confess that I haven't spent a lot of time looking for christian sites to go to, so there might well be some where it's approached with at least as much rationality as christianity allows. I've had some of my most enjoyable debates against old-school theologians. They can't often understand me, but I can understand them.

If there is one out there, let me know, I'd love to got there.

Most of the sites I go to aren't anything to do with religion or scepticism; they vary from politics to sport (mostly) along with a couple of special-interest sites. I can't say the people I talk to online are a fair cross-section of christianity either, because I always use this name - or a very close facsimile of it - and fundamental christians are pretty wont to say something most of the time. Also, the ones I bait usually have the fish-thing on the back of their car, I'd say.

It's been suggested that if I weren't quite so in-your-face, I might find more rational christians.

Probably true.

Reading some of your posts has been a breath of fresh air because you recognise that there are other Xtianities to fundamentalism which are not so mindless. I join in joke threads on one board rather than serious debate because there are a number of very intelligent and knowledgeable Xtians who post and I feel inadequate! (ship of fools).

 

[Darth Rotor]

Now, you're a sneaky bugger; I hadn't had you pegged as a christian at all. I've seen you post a lot of stuff, but nothing pro-christian until now, that I've seen, at least and I do read yours when I see them. I've enjoyed your posts, you seem to be one of the more insightful and balanced posters and I'm a little surprised at finding out you're batting for the other team. No problem with that, I have lots of gay mates, too.

I'd be bold enough to presume that, with your attitude, you'd be a life-long christian rather than a more-recent convert? Don't tell me that the only two non-hypocritical christians on the net are both in a sceptics' forum?!!??!!

I don't think I'll convert anyone on an internet forum, and I think it futile to try. Face to face, one person at a time, is how the Word is best spread, and how it got to me. (Uh, that's the old fashioned way.) Raised by two agnostic liberal parents who (53 years together and counting) were the embodiment of "we > me" that is the key to successful marriage, and is the whole bloody point of the scriptural guidance on marriage. A man is asked to sacrifice for his wife as Christ sacrificed for his Church: translation, everything you have is what you strive to give. In giving is the true power, which is a bit of a paradox.

Dabbled in Bible studies in college, but the folks I was dealing with were as much into control/ego (or getting points for converts, not sure), so it simply became part of my education. From there, my own curiosity and learning from people, both Christian and otherwise, informed my journey.

So, to answer your query, I came to my Faith rather later in life, after kids, after marriage, after having to trust my life to helicopter mechanics, and after a whole lot else.

Batting for the other team? One can always learn. I came to JREF for the CT stuff on a link from the site run by Maddox. Gravy's Screw Loose Change is brilliant^2. I have a bone to pick with those LC pricks, regarding their slander of the Captain of Flight 77. They better not ever meet me in the flesh.

I tossed in a few bits on how flying works, how stupid some of the CT presumptions are. Wandered about to see what else was up. Having been in the sandbox for a while, the Pol/Rel forum seemed to fit.

I learned a long while back that the most effective way to reach people is through a good example, not a lot of words. Forums are a lot of words, Sturgeon's laws apply, to my posts as well as others. To be honest, my example on this forum is hardly exemplary. WWJD? He'd not wank about on an internet forum, I don't think.

I am also guilty of wroth/wrath as a sin. It's a constant struggle. On the bright side, I don't have as short a temper as I used to. Being a life long smart ass, cracking wise on forums is part of why I enjoy forum discussions. Perhaps the whole exercise is a selfish indulgence, and I'll burn in Hell for it.

I'll chance it.

I have Faith that God has a sense of humor. Your own platypus, down there in Oz, is a data point in favor of that belief. No, I can't prove it, but I'll bet the over.

DR

 

[The Atheist]

Your own platypus, down there in Oz

AAARGHHH!!

Them's fighting words! I'm in bloody New Zealand!

... snip... Being a life long smart ass, cracking wise on forums is part of why I enjoy forum discussions. Perhaps the whole exercise is a selfish indulgence, and I'll burn in Hell for it.

I'll chance it.

I have Faith that God has a sense of humor. DR

Thanks for that, it's nice to be able to get a line on where people are coming from. I fancy that you must be a fairly rare bird - an older convert who isn't horribly outspoken about it. I find converts of all types are a little like ex-smokers, hence my comment a few posts ago, which was only partly tongue-in-cheek. I don't really want to ressurrect that other thread, but I do find a lot of ex-christians quite tedious in their slavish devotion to "celebrity atheists".

Oh, I think a sense of humour would be an essential component for your god - sitting and watching humans' little saga, he must just about crap his pants laughing.

 

[Darth Rotor]

AAARGHHH!!

Them's fighting words! I'm in bloody New Zealand!

My bad. Sorry.

I find converts of all types are a little like ex-smokers, hence my comment a few posts ago, which was only partly tongue-in-cheek.

No zealot like a reformed sinner, eh? Having been through the quitting smoking thing, I swore not to be a prick about it and find I make friends by accomodating their taste for the leaf. There but for the Grace of God, or, if you will, finally getting my stuff together and deciding "no more smokes" and all that.

Oh, I think a sense of humour would be an essential component for your god - sitting and watching humans' little saga, he must just about crap his pants laughing.

Aye, and I hear we are just the warm up act.

DR

 

[The Atheist]

Stone the blasphemer for suggesting they make sense. Actually, would you tell me. Remember that you are an abomination unto the Lord!

Now, don't tell anyone, but that's partly the reason I am the way I am - I don't want people to think I'm just some Doubting Thomas, I want them to realise that I not only say NO GOD, but also that I'm fully aware of the flip side of the coin.

Reading some of your posts has been a breath of fresh air because you recognise that there are other Xtianities to fundamentalism which are not so mindless. I join in joke threads on one board rather than serious debate because there are a number of very intelligent and knowledgeable Xtians who post and I feel inadequate! (ship of fools).

Can you give me a link, please? I'd like to have a look around a place like that.

 

[The Atheist]

My bad. Sorry.

You're just lucky they're not beating us at cricket right now!

No zealot like a reformed sinner, eh? Having been through the quitting smoking thing, I swore not to be a prick about it and find I make friends by accomodating their taste for the leaf. There but for the Grace of God, or, if you will, finally getting my stuff together and deciding "no more smokes" and all that.

You are a rare bird! There are times (not often) when I wish I could be as fair-minded, but I enjoy being the arsehole just a little too much. At least I don't need to worry about the eternal results of it, I'm spoken for.

Aye, and I hear we are just the warm up act.

DR

Damn, and all the other christians tell me we're the second-last encore!

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor
No zealot like a reformed sinner, eh? Having been through the quitting smoking thing, I swore not to be a prick about it and find I make friends by accomodating their taste for the leaf. There but for the Grace of God, or, if you will, finally getting my stuff together and deciding "no more smokes" and all that.

You are a rare bird! There are times (not often) when I wish I could be as fair-minded, but I enjoy being the arsehole just a little too much.[/quote]

Funny; you've proven yourself to be more fair-minded than most on this forum to me.

At least I don't need to worry about the eternal results of it, I'm spoken for.

I will pray for you.

Frankly, I think God will have a greater understanding of you than many others.

 

[Huntster]

Huntster

Quote:
And with only the responsibility to make the right decisions for ourselves, and many of us can't seem to do that well most of the time, who are we to judge when God should intervene and when He should not?

We are, from your standpoint, made in god’s image. God is getting old and senile and we’ve got to step forward, like good children, and take responsibility for out ailing parents.

You wish to make yourself a god.

Good luck, youngster.

Quote:
....If a god knows what is going to happen and then will judge you on that there is no free-will.....

Why not?

News flash, it’s not our god. You’ve got to explain a tri-omni god and reconcile freewill.

Sorry; I don't have to do squat.

Two millennia and the best Christians have come up with is to remove the tri-omni. That’s nice and all, but once removed you can’t go back and again claim a tri-omni god.

I've avoided your (and all other idiot's interpretation/weapon) of "omni" up to this point, and will continue to do so. Why?

Because it's BS. Just like all the other "interpretations" you try to use to define God.

Quote:
No, I don't believe Jesus was a socialist.

Wrong again.

Acts 4:31-37

As they prayed, the place where they were gathered shook, and they were all filled with the holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness.
The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common.
With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all.
There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.
Thus Joseph, also named by the apostles Barnabas (which is translated "son of encouragement"), a Levite, a Cypriot by birth,
sold a piece of property that he owned, then brought the money and put it at the feet of the apostles.

My version (RCC):

As they prayed, the place where they were gathered shook, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all. There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need. Thus Joseph, also named by the apostles Barnabas (which is translated "son of encouragement"), a Levite, a Cypriot by birth, sold a piece of property that he owned, then brought the money and put it at the feet of the apostles.

There is no mention here of "central control of production and distribution."

What I'm reading about is altruism, not socialism.

There's a BIG difference, lad.

 

[Huntster]

Originally Posted by Huntster
I have no intention to allow you to steer me into the corner of your choosing.

If you are just talking to yourself, why quote other posters?

If I'm just talking to myself, why are you answering?

You are free to talk about whatever you want, but there is no benefit in your continually pointless changes of subject and non-answers. Spend all of your days babbling about an imaginary spirit world populated by god and the saints and Tinkerbell if that is your pleasure. I'll concentrate my short time in existence on the real world.

Then, pray tell, why are you bothering to type out such posts to me?

 

[Mr Clingford]

Now, don't tell anyone, but that's partly the reason I am the way I am - I don't want people to think I'm just some Doubting Thomas, I want them to realise that I not only say NO GOD, but also that I'm fully aware of the flip side of the coin.
Can you give me a link, please? I'd like to have a look around a place like that.

Sure, http://ship-of-fools.com/index.html

 

[The Atheist]

Sure, http://ship-of-fools.com/index.html

Looks good, just joined.

Cheers

 

[Canadian Malcontent]

Gee, and I chose a picture of your (not-so-french) queen as my avatar. I guess no good deed goes unrewarded....

Sleep it off, son. You'll feel better in the morning.

What's the official language of England? What does the Queen speak?

Answer: French.

Why? Because of our Norman forebears, Who spoke French, even though they were Norwegian.

I slept it off. Aside from the profanity, the physical challenges and the overall discontinuity with the thread, I stand by everything I said.

I am grateful to all, you who read this, to every living soul in North America, to everyone who has, historically, participated in the society in which I live, and to everyone who loves freedom. I am grateful for the freeedom I have, and I wish to keep it. Thank you, thank you very much.

Liberte Egalite Fraternite

Your friend,
Canadian Malcontent

 

[Canadian Malcontent]

She's German, not French.

Yeah, she's German but Princess Diana was Norman (de Sponce - Spencer). William, the Prince, is an Englishman. This is an event as momentous as the Pope's concession to Lutherans (Spring 1999) of the truth of Martin Luther's 95 theses.

Do you appreciate that?

Your friend,
Canadian Malcontent

 

[Canadian Malcontent]

I went to bed early last night and missed all the fireworks. I'm almost a little sad to see our lumberjack friend get the axe (temporarily, at least) 'cause I would have really liked to hear what he had to say once he sobered up.

I'm a little surprised because I had him pegged as a harmless idiot. I guess the lesson I should learn is, "stupidity is never harmless".

Any farmer will tell you that no male animal is harmless. Any male animal with balls still attached is a dangerous animal.

The female animals are dangerous when you mess with them, when you mess with their young, they are more dangerous than the males.

Maybe the best advice is: do not mess with the young, born or unborn, of the species.

I don't mean to get into a political argument but look at the pictures, look at American law, Constitutional rights beginning at conception.

I, as a living man, have an obligation to every living soul on this earth. The very least I can do is speak. I am speaking here. Thank you for hearing me.

Your friend,
Canadian Malcontent