Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Harlequin]

Well I still don't believe anyone who seeks God earnestly with faith is dissappointed. Maybe it's more a faith issue that needs to be in question.

Of course! All TRUE believers find salvation in god. If you don't receive the golden glow of his benediction, it must be because you don't really believe.

Oh, and you're not really a scotsman...

 

[kurious_kathy]

While the question you posed is an attempt at misdirection, I'll bite. I was raised a fundamentalist Christian and attended a number of Christian schools. I would say I'm pretty familiar with the concept of Agape as espoused by modern Christians. While commonly used to denote God's love for mankind and the brotherly love that should exist between Christians, there is another context; specifically, a loving response to a hateful act. In my original post I mentioned religious zealots burning innocent people as witches was considered a moral, godly act during that period. Your statement is asinine in this case, as the only people who could have shown Agape would have been the people being burned (i.e., forgive them for they know not what they do, etc.) not the lunatics waving the torches and counting the victims' cash.

There were a lot of ugly things done in human history. Some in the name of Allah, some in the name of Christ. Somehow I do not believe Jesus would approve of any of them. So why do people try to justify killing at all?

As Christians we are told to turn the other cheek, but that's not always easy is it. The USA could have turned the other cheek and not stepped in to help defend Isreal from the brutal murders going on there.

All I can say Is there is no such thing as a holy war and I cannot wait for Jesus to return to earth and straighten things out. The King is coming the question is will you be ready for His return?

 

[Paulhoff]

I cannot wait for Jesus to return to earth and straighten things out. The King is coming the question is will you be ready for His return?

Every generation has said this BS, they always think that their time is the worst and their Jesus would be coming soon. Unless you what to die, don’t hold your breath, but wait, heaven is so good why haven't you.

Paul

 

[Cleon]

There were a lot of ugly things done in human history. Some in the name of Allah, some in the name of Christ. Somehow I do not believe Jesus would approve of any of them. So why do people try to justify killing at all?

Ah. Finally, kathy posts something I agree with.

 

[The_Fire]

There were a lot of ugly things done in human history. Some in the name of Allah, some in the name of Christ. Somehow I do not believe Jesus would approve of any of them. So why do people try to justify killing at all?

And they were all done via justification from someones interpretation or direct quoting from the holy books of the repective religions. What makes you think that your interpretation is correct if all these people are wrong?

As Christians we are told to turn the other cheek, but that's not always easy is it. The USA could have turned the other cheek and not stepped in to help defend Isreal from the brutal murders going on there.

And this would mean that the bible have been known to be erranous, doesn't it?After all, to stop various murders through history, including WW2, someone had to STOP turning the other cheek. Which would pretty much make your belief in the bibles flawlessness false.

All I can say Is there is no such thing as a holy war and I cannot wait for Jesus to return to earth and straighten things out. The King is coming the question is will you be ready for His return?

Right.......When and are you planning on procreating in the mean time? After all, if the socalled "king" of yours decides pop in soon, there's no need for sucecssors to carry on your legacy and thus no need for procreating. This makes the entire process of having babies a sign of doubt.

 

[TheAntiLuddite]

All I can say Is there is no such thing as a holy war and I cannot wait for Jesus to return to earth and straighten things out. The King is coming the question is will you be ready for His return?

I had to laugh when I read this. You've ended almost every one of your posts in this thread with the condensed version of a Jack Chick tract. Look, if belief in an imaginary deity, fairy, alien, talking donkey, ascended master, etc. who will one day make everything better and whisk you away to paradise for believing in him/her/it (a bizarre and mean-spirited requirement) is what helps get you through the day, I'll not attempt to disabuse you of that notion. Anyone clinging to that kind of fantasy in order to escape reality has my genuine sympathy.

 

[ranson]

And scripture says all that ask receive so I suggest you seek Him again.

This is the one that gets me. So many here have tried to get across the fact that they have asked, begged, reached out for this "love", over and over and over, with no response.

And you say, "That's okay if it doesn't work. Just keep trying."

I asked more than once. So, am I to receive? When? It certainly wasn't when I was asking. Ten years from now? Tomorrow? Why bother to ask again if I've asked once, since, according to your scripture, asking leads to success no matter what?

 

[Huntster]

This is the one that gets me. So many here have tried to get across the fact that they have asked, begged, reached out for this "love", over and over and over, with no response.

And you say, "That's okay if it doesn't work. Just keep trying."

I asked more than once. So, am I to receive? When? It certainly wasn't when I was asking. Ten years from now? Tomorrow? Why bother to ask again if I've asked once, since, according to your scripture, asking leads to success no matter what?

Luke 18:1-8

Then he told them a parable about the necessity for them to pray always without becoming weary. He said, "There was a judge in a certain town who neither feared God nor respected any human being. And a widow in that town used to come to him and say, 'Render a just decision for me against my adversary.' For a long time the judge was unwilling, but eventually he thought, 'While it is true that I neither fear God nor respect any human being, because this widow keeps bothering me I shall deliver a just decision for her lest she finally come and strike me.'" The Lord said, "Pay attention to what the dishonest judge says. Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

 

[Paulhoff]

"Bible quoting again"

Paul

 

[The Atheist]

You see, Kathy, I read the bible with an open mind. I am not shackled by the requirement that it must all be believed. It is much more revealing that way.

Amen.

Well played, mate!

 

[ceo_esq]

ceo_esq
What reconcilation is needed? Let us look at the actual text.



From the text those ignorant of god must still seek god.

Ignorant still goes to hell.

Ignorant of god but seeking god may with god's grace go to heaven. There is that active requirement again and on top of that god still has to grant one grace.

Ossai

That passage from the Catechism indicates that those who are consciously ignorant of God but who sincerely try to do good inasmuch as their consciences permit them to discern it can attain heaven - even if they never actually overcome their formal ignorance of God. That means that at least under some circumstances, one could be ignorant of God yet not be damned. You earlier suggested that all those who remained ignorant of God were damned, did you not?

I'm pleased that you took the time to actually read the thing for a few moments, though, even if you appear not to have understood why it is in tension with your earlier statements.

 

[Paulhoff]

KK, you just don’t get it, your bible was not written by any so-called god, or inspired by any so-called god, it was written by MEN (not women, do you love being controlled by men). They knew that if they wanted to control people it would be thru ignorance and by not educating them in the REAL TRUTH, but by teaching them bogus religious truth. They knew that it would be much easier to control people thru fear and ignorance, because if people knew were educated and knew the truth they would not be able to control them and that they would lose their power over them. They knew that if people were educated to the universe (unlike you) the people would all by themselves be able to come to logical conclusions on how to live within a sociality and not need a so-called god and the religious power base people to lie to them in order to control them. You have fallen into there trap, you have shown that you are ignorance of the world. So have fun in your ignorance, it is a much easier path then one of learning that takes time and insight. You just be a real American and think that just because you are an American you already know the truth without checking out the facts.

Paul

 

[Beleth]

People will never become like God and someday own their own planet.

Hmmm.

"Blessed are the meek, for" ... how did that end again?

 

[Tricky]

I just saw this one while stopped at a red light and I happened to have my camera. I wonder if the person with the sticker saw the irony of comparing Jesus with a stage magician? The comparison is very apt, but I'm guessing people like Kathy wouldn't get it.

 

[snooziums]

All I can say Is there is no such thing as a holy war and I cannot wait for Jesus to return to earth and straighten things out. The King is coming the question is will you be ready for His return?

Where does it talk about Jesus's return? In Revelations? Nope, that happened at about 300 A.D. and has already passed.

Amazing, that these people are still waiting for the "end times," when clearly the "end times" described in the last book of the bible already happened, 1,700 years ago.

And to think, they discredit the Jews for waiting for "their" messiah.

 

[Huntster]

....And to think, they discredit the Jews for waiting for "their" messiah.

Who does that?

 

[Obsequious]

Well I still don't believe anyone who seeks God earnestly with faith is dissappointed. Maybe it's more a faith issue that needs to be in question.

I had faith so even from the pit of despair Jesus saved me! And scripture says all that ask receive so I suggest you seek Him again.

You haven't read a thing I've written.

For those actually paying attention, we see here again: Have faith to have faith! Round and round and round and round and round--

The answer from Kathy is, I suppose, If God wanted you to have faith, you would have been born with it. I wasn't so I don't get to have it, and all of that "ask and receive" stuff is only for people who were born Real True Christians.

Whew! Well, that's a load off my mind. Since I know I'm going to Hell for sure*, I might as well live it up now while I still can! YEEEE-HAW!

*(being as I can never know God's Grace, what with not having enough faith to have faith enough to ask for it correctly which I would know how to do if I already had it and therefore didn't really need to ask for it which I guess is the right way to ask or something, I mean why should God answer the desperate pleas of the heartsick, right?)



P.S. Huntster, I didn't really understand your quote or how it related to ranson's post. Could you please clarify at least the meaning of it for me?

 

[Huntster]

... Huntster, I didn't really understand your quote or how it related to ranson's post. Could you please clarify at least the meaning of it for me?

Originally Posted by ranson
This is the one that gets me. So many here have tried to get across the fact that they have asked, begged, reached out for this "love", over and over and over, with no response.

And you say, "That's okay if it doesn't work. Just keep trying."

I asked more than once. So, am I to receive? When? It certainly wasn't when I was asking. Ten years from now? Tomorrow? Why bother to ask again if I've asked once, since, according to your scripture, asking leads to success no matter what?

Ranson has lamented the fact that he has asked, begged, reached out, etc for the love of God, and feels he/she hasn't gotten a response.

He/she is demonstrating frustration and appears to have lost his/her patience for it.

I quote Christ regarding the need for persistence:

Luke 18:1-8

Quote:
Then he told them a parable about the necessity for them to pray always without becoming weary. He said, "There was a judge in a certain town who neither feared God nor respected any human being. And a widow in that town used to come to him and say, 'Render a just decision for me against my adversary.' For a long time the judge was unwilling, but eventually he thought, 'While it is true that I neither fear God nor respect any human being, because this widow keeps bothering me I shall deliver a just decision for her lest she finally come and strike me.'" The Lord said, "Pay attention to what the dishonest judge says. Will not God then secure the rights of his chosen ones who call out to him day and night? Will he be slow to answer them? I tell you, he will see to it that justice is done for them speedily. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

I highlighted the last sentence, because that's the key: Without faith, you're not likely to get far, and Christ asks if He will find any faith here.

If there was a single message that Christ repeated to the point of being ridiculous, it was His stressing the need for faith. Yet, so many just can't seem to keep and nourish it.

 

[Obsequious]

Thanks! I thought that might be what you were getting at, but I'm really tired tonight so I wasn't sure and didn't want to make any assumptions.

I can't speak for ranson, but for myself: never mind keeping and nourshing faith, where are we supposed to get it in the first place? Again, that's a frustrating issue from my side of the debate. Where are you supposed to get faith if you don't have it? People like Kathy say all you have to do is ask-- But we've been over this ground before. (I tend to repeat myself when I'm tired, sorry)

 

[Huntster]

Thanks!

You're welcome!

I can't speak for ranson, but for myself: never mind keeping and nourshing faith, where are we supposed to get it in the first place?

It's more like "how do we recapture it." There's a reason why Christ said:

(Matthew 11:25)

I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike.

And:

Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

And:

Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.

Children are capable of great faith. As we grow and are infected with the diseases of doubt, pride, independence, etc., we lose our faith to knowledge.

Again, that's a frustrating issue from my side of the debate. Where are you supposed to get faith if you don't have it? People like Kathy say all you have to do is ask-- But we've been over this ground before. (I tend to repeat myself when I'm tired, sorry)

I'm going to try to find a resource for you for reviving and nourishing faith. Give me a bit of time.