Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

Huntster
Try reading it again. Maybe you'll get it the second time around.
I did. Now why don’t you.
1033
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him.
. . .
To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."
And you even responded with the following. (bold mine)

That's incorrect (or a lie). If you're ignorant of God (don't know about Him), you cannont know or reject Him.
and in a reply to Beleth you wrote
Can one accept God's salvation without believing in God?
I don't know how.

Now if one must freely choose to love him[god], and such a person is ignorant of god, then they are, based on what the RCC teaches, upon death going to hell.

Which brings us right back to:
A person ignorant of your god = straight to hell
A person raised in another culture, but has heard of the RCC/Christianity/etc = straight to hell
A person mentally incapable of making a free choice to exclude or include god = straight to hell

Ossai
 
....I'm tired of this endless bleat from Huntster and Kathy. However, I respond because there's greater evil in allowing it to continue. You either stand up and oppose this hate, or you allow it to ferment and embitter everything it touches....

Huh?

What "hate"?

It looks like you're the one who hates something.

Try as I might, I still can't figure out why only Kathy's God or Huntster's God are the only "True" Gods.

Me, neither. In fact, I've repeatedly pointed out that:

1) I don't claim to have a corner on "the one, true God",
2) People all over the world, and throughout human history have worshipped various versions of God, and all to my blessing
3) Those who hate God are the ones in the dark

Frankly, if their "Gods" had the corner on the market for Truth, wouldn't we see it in their actions?

What do you know of my actions?
 
Huntster
Quote:
Try reading it again. Maybe you'll get it the second time around.

I did. Now why don’t you.

I don't usually need to read things multiple times in order to recognize them.

Now if one must freely choose to love him[god], and such a person is ignorant of god, then they are, based on what the RCC teaches, upon death going to hell.


What an idiot.

I'm continually assailed with the argument of:

"How can I hate something I don't believe exists?"

So, I ask you (please, read it slowly, and multiple times, if needed):

How can someone love/worship/recognize/self-exclude themselves from something that they have never even heard of? They can't even come to believe/disbelieve.

Which brings us right back to:
A person ignorant of your god = straight to hell
A person raised in another culture, but has heard of the RCC/Christianity/etc = straight to hell
A person mentally incapable of making a free choice to exclude or include god = straight to hell

No, it only brings you back to it.

You really don't have a clue, do you?
 
I'm continually assailed with the argument of:

"How can I hate something I don't believe exists?"

So, I ask you (please, read it slowly, and multiple times, if needed):

How can someone love/worship/recognize/self-exclude themselves from something that they have never even heard of? They can't even come to believe/disbelieve.
You got me here, Huntster - that's just a little too mis-associative for my liking. I think there are two different points entirely and I'm with you 100% on one and against on the other

Your comment in bold is, I believe, quite indisputable. Nothing that I know of suggests that people who are ignorant of god are excluded from him.

That bold sentence has no relationship to the hate comment though, I gave you that exact answer not long ago; "How can I hate something which doesn't exist?". I will cheerfully stand and say that if god did exist, I would hate him with all my being as I would hate any existence who idly watches [and causes, if the Bible's any guide] pain and suffering to children. (amongst a great deal of other bad karma)

Alas, I am as equally convinced with all my being that your god - or any other - does not exist. Insisting that I "hate god" is like saying that I hate fairies and Invisible Pink Unicorns. I hate the concept of god, I hate the waste of human capacity in the worship of god/s, but I do not "hate god".
 
...I gave you that exact answer not long ago; "How can I hate something which doesn't exist?". I will cheerfully stand and say that if god did exist, I would hate him with all my being.....

That's what makes you different from many other posters here:

At least you're honest.

Alas, I am as equally convinced with all my being that your god - or any other - does not exist. Insisting that I "hate god" is like saying that I hate fairies and Invisible Pink Unicorns.

Alas..............back to fairies and Pink Unicorns................

I hate the concept of god, I hate the waste of human capacity in the worship of god/s, but I do not "hate god".

Okay! Back to honesty
 
Huh?

What "hate"?

It looks like you're the one who hates something.

Projection. Nice. I'll bet you're a real specimen for the Freudians.

Me, neither. In fact, I've repeatedly pointed out that:

1) I don't claim to have a corner on "the one, true God",
2) People all over the world, and throughout human history have worshipped various versions of God, and all to my blessing
3) Those who hate God are the ones in the dark

You might not have the corner on the one true God, but what you have said here before suggests the assumption that you're more knowledgeable regarding Him than others. Add to that the condescension you've added to your responses to others in this regard. If I'm in error, I apologize.

And as others have pointed out: You can't hate what does not exist. If one is supposedly led by the Holy Spirit, you have to ask how that individual can spew such things as declaring that Fowlsound's cancer was God's way of drawing him closer to God. ("What, you don't love me? Fine. Let me kill you so you will love me.")

Permit me to repeat this one more time: I am married to a devout evangelical Christian lady, (and yes, I mean lady), a woman whose devotion to Christ prohibits her from saying hateful, hurtful things to people she meets. Regardless of what is said in Scripture, she treats gays, lesbians, adulterers, thieves, whatever, with a high degree of respect. She prays daily, particularly for the people on this board, and not that God will "open their eyes," but for far more practical needs. She's been praying of late for Tricky's family, given the recent death of his father-in-law, she's been praying for Fowlsound to be cured of his cancer, and that the pain will be eased, and she's been praying for Slingblade's employment situation.

Okay, that's what she does for the few minutes in the day when she's on her knees. Off her knees, she's been sewing clothes for people who haven't the money to buy them. She's been cooking for those who can't do so for themselves. If Fowl lived a little closer, she'd probably be making him and his bride a blanket to keep warm during the coming winter, and she's been trying to help out friends with situations you need not know the details of. (Nor would she "share" that information with you. She's no gossip.) She extends her hand and heart as a friend, first. And if you question that, I would suggest you talk to the JREFers who have met her face to face.

That, sir, is what I expect from Christianity. I expect that a Christian will extend a desire to serve first, long before there's a need to "confront" someone regarding their "sin." My wife's faith is revealed through her genuine compassion and care, rather than through her dogma and declaration. That is why people listen to her, and why at lunch at TAM IV, people listened to her and respected her, including atheists who have had their fill of "Christian" witnesses.

What do you know of my actions?

You have given us plenty of clues to your actions through your posts. I'm in no rush to experience them first hand.

I disagree with a number of people on this board. I do not hate them for this; quite the opposite, they've shown me to be true friends for doing so. I would rather share a beer with the likes of Upchurch, Lost Angeles, RandFan, Fowlsound, or any number of others, people with whom I have distinct and significant disagreements with, than just about anyone else. It's a hope of mine that I'll get a chance to hoist a brew or more with everyone I've come to admire on this board, to argue -- not fight -- with them regarding what we believe, and why, and to make certain I've had the chance to tell them how much their honesty and courage has meant to me. For it's through the associations we have with courageous people that we gain courage ourselves.

I'd like to think that in coming to know Fowlsound, Paul A., Linda, Tim, Girl 6, Hal Bidlack, and so many others on this board, that I've become a little more courageous, myself. Frankly, sir, I think this world needs more courage, not less. We'll only find that by honoring those who have demonstrated it, not by demeaning them, as Kathy and others of her ilk have done.

You cannot come here and degrade my friends, Sir. For that, I will confront you, I will fight you. Integrity demands it.
 
....I'll bet you're a real specimen for the Freudians....

Not really. I don't do the "sexual repression" thing.

You might not have the corner on the one true God, but what you have said here before suggests the assumption that you're more knowledgeable regarding Him than others.

Your assumptions are yours, not mine.

Add to that the condescension you've added to your responses to others in this regard. If I'm in error, I apologize.

I tend to sharpen my keyboard with those who like to do so to me.

And as others have pointed out: You can't hate what does not exist.

Yeah. I've heard.

If one is supposedly led by the Holy Spirit, you have to ask how that individual can spew such things as declaring that Fowlsound's cancer was God's way of drawing him closer to God. ("What, you don't love me? Fine. Let me kill you so you will love me.")

1) What individual did that?
2) Why can that not be?

Permit me to repeat this one more time: I am married to a devout evangelical Christian lady, (and yes, I mean lady), a woman whose devotion to Christ prohibits her from saying hateful, hurtful things to people she meets. Regardless of what is said in Scripture, she treats gays, lesbians, adulterers, thieves, whatever, with a high degree of respect. She prays daily, particularly for the people on this board, and not that God will "open their eyes," but for far more practical needs. She's been praying of late for Tricky's family, given the recent death of his father-in-law, she's been praying for Fowlsound to be cured of his cancer, and that the pain will be eased, and she's been praying for Slingblade's employment situation.

Sounds like a pretty neat lady. Congratulations.

Okay, that's what she does for the few minutes in the day when she's on her knees. Off her knees, she's been sewing clothes for people who haven't the money to buy them. She's been cooking for those who can't do so for themselves. If Fowl lived a little closer, she'd probably be making him and his bride a blanket to keep warm during the coming winter, and she's been trying to help out friends with situations you need not know the details of. (Nor would she "share" that information with you. She's no gossip.) She extends her hand and heart as a friend, first. And if you question that, I would suggest you talk to the JREFers who have met her face to face.

Yup. Sounds like quite a lady. Reminds me of "the virtuous wife."

That, sir, is what I expect from Christianity. I expect that a Christian will extend a desire to serve first, long before there's a need to "confront" someone regarding their "sin." My wife's faith is revealed through her genuine compassion and care, rather than through her dogma and declaration. That is why people listen to her, and why at lunch at TAM IV, people listened to her and respected her, including atheists who have had their fill of "Christian" witnesses.

Good for you.

Now, must I tell you what I expect from atheists?

I tend to get it, too.

You have given us plenty of clues to your actions through your posts. I'm in no rush to experience them first hand.

Again, good for you.

I'd like to think that in coming to know Fowlsound, Paul A., Linda, Tim, Girl 6, Hal Bidlack, and so many others on this board, that I've become a little more courageous, myself. Frankly, sir, I think this world needs more courage, not less. We'll only find that by honoring those who have demonstrated it, not by demeaning them, as Kathy and others of her ilk have done.

You cannot come here and degrade my friends, Sir. For that, I will confront you, I will fight you. Integrity demands it.

What a line of crap. Empty threats. You call that integrity?

Come get me, teamster. Show us your "integrity."
 
The day someone's life can change is when they decide to take God at His Word. Jesus is who He claimed to be, the only way to the Father. The true Son of God who came here to earth to save us all!

Back to the bumper stickers...I like this one,"SMILE, GOD LOVES YOU!"
 
The day someone's life can change is when they decide to take God at His Word. Jesus is who He claimed to be, the only way to the Father.
I believe that your life will change if you decide to forsake rationality for the comfort of mindless belief. But not necessarily for the better.

The true Son of God who came here to earth to save us all!
Joseph Smith???!!


Back to the bumper stickers...I like this one,"SMILE, GOD LOVES YOU..."
"...BUT UNLESS YOU SWEAR BLIND LOYALTY, HE WILL TORTURE YOU FOR ETERNITY."
 
What a line of crap. Empty threats. You call that integrity?

Come get me, teamster. Show us your "integrity."
Hey, me back in this thread again!

Just class me as your friendly barracker that sits on the sidelines at sport giving helpful assistance to the combatants! Huntster, I've been watching this thread and don't feel compelled to add much to the religion debate here, but I got a real kick out of the post, and more particularly, your replies to it. If anyone, he should have been directing those comments at me, although, if he could cobble together a couple of miracles (and it sounds as though there might be a couple of candidates locally) she could be a nominee for beatification and maybe you could lend a hand.

<<Roadtoad, I'm not trying to take the piss out of your missus here, I admire people who help other people, regardless of whether they do it for personal or religious reasons, but you've used a bad analogy to the wrong guy, in Huntster. I'd also go as far as to say that if you knew as much about christianity, the bible, Jesus and his dad as you claim - and ought to be, married to Noah's wife - you should have realised that anyway.>.
 
Joseph Smith???!!

A phoney, AKA false prophet! The book of Mormon isn't true. People will never become like God and someday own their own planet. Jesus and Lucifer are not brothers, shall I continue?


"...BUT UNLESS YOU SWEAR BLIND LOYALTY, HE WILL TORTURE YOU FOR ETERNITY."

Do you love yourself Tricky? Most people at least try to like themselves, right? Well why wouldn't you want to like or love the one who created you? God knows each of us better than we even know ourselves.
 
A phoney, AKA false prophet! The book of Mormon isn't true. People will never become like God and someday own their own planet. Jesus and Lucifer are not brothers, shall I continue?
What proof do you have the Joseph Smith was any more false than Jesus?

Do you love yourself Tricky? Most people at least try to like themselves, right? Well why wouldn't you want to like or love the one who created you? God knows each of us better than we even know ourselves.
Your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
 
Isn’t it just amazing that when someone believes in god, that the way they believe is the right way, and it is everyone else who doesn’t get it quite right.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
What proof do you have the Joseph Smith was any more false than Jesus?

No one else has the power that Jesus has. When Jesus takes up residence in someones life the truth manifests itself. God's Word is true! Have you ever read it?

And Joseph Smith when you look into his backround you'll find out for yourself.
 
Jesus was just a man, if he was at all. You want to buy into that, that is just fine, I have a bridge for sale.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
No one else has the power that Jesus has. When Jesus takes up residence in someones life the truth manifests itself. God's Word is true! Have you ever read it?

And Joseph Smith when you look into his backround you'll find out for yourself.

What proof do you have of Jesus' existance and/or supernatural powers?
 
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No one else has the power that Jesus has. When Jesus takes up residence in someones life the truth manifests itself. God's Word is true! Have you ever read it?
Yes, I have.

Numbers 31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

It's brutal and evil full of atrocities, racism, slavery and intolerance. Yeah, I HAVE READ IT.

And Joseph Smith when you look into his backround you'll find out for yourself.
No question. Look into the background of Christianity and you will find the same.
 
What a line of crap. Empty threats. You call that integrity?

Come get me, teamster. Show us your "integrity."

Is the threat empty because I don't need to engage in physical violence to back it up? I don't have to bust you one across the chops to oppose what you say or what you do. I can stand in opposition to what you claim to believe, and, yes, that represents integrity. It is the same as when I say something cruel or ugly, and someone else confronts me, as has happened in the past on this board.

No threats needed. Just positive action.

And make note, sir. You were the one who brought up violent action. Not me.
 
<<Roadtoad, I'm not trying to take the piss out of your missus here, I admire people who help other people, regardless of whether they do it for personal or religious reasons, but you've used a bad analogy to the wrong guy, in Huntster. I'd also go as far as to say that if you knew as much about christianity, the bible, Jesus and his dad as you claim - and ought to be, married to Noah's wife - you should have realised that anyway.>.

Probably, A. But there's a point where Huntster's attitude, his smugness, gets to me. That's probably the greatest affront.

He believes in Christ? Great. Many do. Maybe in person, he's a great guy, someone who's quite literally a pillar in the community, and for that I would applaud him. Fewer and fewer are willing to step up to the plate for that.

But, dammit, enough. I can't bear any more of the ugliness that is presented here, and justified in the name of God.

(Oh, and BTW: Read your bit about "Noah's wife" to Peggy. She not only laughed, but blushed. If you're ever in Sacramento, give us a call. You're welcome here.)
 

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