Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Anacoluthon64]

Well if there are also infinite universes, then there will be one that will have the right possibilities for our type of physical constants, so here we are, welcome home.

Yes, that whole fallacious line of reasoning boils down to this simple analogy: "since my chances of winning the lottery are so tiny, and the same can be said for each person playing, it is safe to conclude that nobody will win it."

There's an official name for the fallacy, though it escapes me.

'Luthon64

 

[Paulhoff]

But someone does win.

Paul

 

[Brainache]

I suppose it also relates to whether or not the many worlds solution to Quantum M theory is valid.
There may not be an infinite number of universes. There might be just the one.
As I said in my first post, I am wavering on this.
I just don't know and I am not really qualified to make a definite statement either way.
I'm willing to accept either solution because I can't see that it makes a great deal of difference to me personally either way.

 

[kurious_kathy]

So...if faith is all you have...and faith can make you believe anything...what makes Christianity so special? How can the faithful have any kind of certainty?

That's an easy one, God gives us His Holy Spirit which comforts and guides us through this dark world. All I know is everything the Bible teaches is true and by faith we are set free! Once you believe in Christ God opens your spiritual eyes, and He is the only one who can.

Until you are filled with the Holy Spirit the Bible can seem very difficult to relate to or understand to apply meaning in your life. God's love is real!

 

[Paulhoff]

Hello god, Paul calling god, come in god, were are you,

Nothing heard

And why is this world dark, god gets it wrong again.

Paul



So is it god, Jesus or the holy spirit, pick one, your god is a jealous one and will have no gods before him. Which to me means that there are other gods.

 

[Anacoluthon64]

Until you are filled with the Holy Spirit the Bible can seem very difficult to relate to or understand to apply meaning in your life. God's love is real!

However, lacking holy spirit, I find being filled with a ripe Merlot adequately enabling of such enlightenment. White spirits aren't such a good idea, though - just look what cane did to Abel.

'Luthon64

 

[Freethinker]

Until you are filled with the Holy Spirit the Bible can seem very difficult to relate to or understand to apply meaning in your life.

I assume being filled with the Holy Spirit makes you believe the sun rotates around the Earth and that bats are birds. I do like a good spirit. Bourbon would be my first choice.

Let's try some other words in place of "filled with the Holy Spirit". My first try: brainwashed.

Until you are brainwashed the Bible can seem very difficult to relate to or understand to apply meaning in your life.

Others that quickly come to mind:

under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs

drunk

gullible

.....

 

[Azure]

Yet you persist in attempting to achieve just that which you here assert to be impossible. I am confused.

'Luthon64

No I don't. I said the only way one can believe in a 'god' is through faith. You can't prove it, and to try to do so would be foolish.

Where exactly have I tried to prove that God exists?

 

[Anacoluthon64]

No I don't.

Yes, you demonstrably do.

I said the only way one can believe in a 'god' is through faith.

False: a reasonable man's belief is required pursuant to unequivocal knowledge of a god's existence; to know and yet disbelieve is to be, at minimum, inconsistent.

You can't prove it, and to try to do so would be foolish.

Please be clear: prove what? And why would an attempted proof be foolish?

Where exactly have I tried to prove that God exists?

Do not, please, attempt such annoyingly dishonest and transparent misdirection. You repeatedly are, as you yourself put it, "justifying through faith" faith itself. Review what you have written in these pages if it helps you. If it is indeed your position that matters of faith are beyond any rational or empirical justification, you really have but one option on such matters. See if you can work out what that option might be.

'Luthon64

 

[Ossai]

Azure

It was reported in the scriptures, which like I have said many times before, is the 'only' evidence that exists. I even gave you a link.

Which lead right back to being an irrational belief.

Never argued that. But Jesus being physical should have left tons of evidence in some fashion if he were indeed physical, regardless of the spiritual side of things.

And what would the evidence prove?

To answer my own question....nothing really, as the physical aspect does 'nothing' for the believers.

For yourself maybe, but there are millions of Christians that would be overjoyed at even the smallest amount of real physical evidence.

I never asked you to be nice. Just don't call the belief of others moronic.

Moronic: 1. a person who is notably stupid or lacking in good judgment.

Religious belief shows a very sound lack of good judgment.

He was the ark angel, until he fell, remember?

Where is it reported that Satan fell? Chapter & verse please (Isn’t revelations supposed to be a prophecy?)

I'm not going to answer that....since I don't believe in a specific God, rather just a supernatural force that controls the universe.

Are you lying now or earlier when you said you were Christian?


KingMerv00

Gambit is kewler.

Gambit blows chunks, well at least the writing and editing at the time. Gambit was Harpoon (or one of Harpoon’s clones) the story line was set up from the beginning but the character became too popular so they toned it waaaay back. :humph:

EnanMyHero

But Gambit did have a thing for Rogue who is just an Uber Hottie... tho Psylock is far Hotter... mmmm

Rogue is a hottie after they deaged her about 20 years, go look at her first few appearances, she appeared to be in her mid 30s to 40s. The rest is true, Psylock is must better then Rogue, both versions.


kurious_kathy

All I know is everything the Bible teaches is true and by faith we are set free! Once you believe in Christ God opens your spiritual eyes, and He is the only one who can.

(little kid voice)
Kathy stones babies.
Kathy stones babies.
Want a baby killed, who ya gonna call? Kurious Kathy!


(Yes I am being deliberately insulting. How is it working? Maybe I need some pointers from debunk.)
Ossai

 

[Paulhoff]

No I don't. I said the only way one can believe in a 'god' is through faith. You can't prove it, and to try to do so would be foolish.

You were brainwashed very well, that is the biggest BS of all about religions from the Middle East. But isn't funny that when it all started their god was doing all kinds of miracles, what is wrong, is this god sick now.

Paul

 

[Azure]

Yes, you demonstrably do.

Prove it.

Prove to me that I have tried to bring evidence to this discussion showing that God exists.

belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.

Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

Dictionary

 

[Azure]

Which lead right back to being an irrational belief.

Your opinion.

For yourself maybe, but there are millions of Christians that would be overjoyed at even the smallest amount of real physical evidence.

I guess they don't have their belief in the right order then.

Its clear the 'faith' is a dominant principle in the NT.

Where is it reported that Satan fell? Chapter & verse please (Isn’t revelations supposed to be a prophecy?)

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming…How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer…thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. (Isaiah 14:9-16 KJV)

So much for your understanding of the Bible.

Revelation is not all prophecy..

And there was war in heaven…Satan was cast out (Revelation 12:7-9)

Are you lying now or earlier when you said you were Christian?

Liar.

 

[Azure]

You were brainwashed very well, that is the biggest BS of all about religions from the Middle East. But isn't funny that when it all started their god was doing all kinds of miracles, what is wrong, is this god sick now.

Paul

And you were brain-washed even better.

Whats your point?

 

[EnanMyHero]

That's an easy one, God gives us His Holy Spirit which comforts and guides us through this dark world. All I know is everything the Bible teaches is true and by faith we are set free! Once you believe in Christ God opens your spiritual eyes, and He is the only one who can.

Until you are filled with the Holy Spirit the Bible can seem very difficult to relate to or understand to apply meaning in your life. God's love is real!

The only "Holy Spirit" is Sacramental Wine. Or maybe that beer those monks made... but that's not really a spirit is it? And the preaching is getting so tedious to read now! I mean seriously your God is non-existant in any way shape or form. But again that's just me being a bitter person after the crap I've gone through and reading the crap you constantly spew is just aggravating... but ignore me...

Also... nm I forgot

 

[Tony]

Is Azure outing himself as a religious wacko? If so, that explains a lot. I must say this however, don't leave the forum Azure, we need more woos here.

 

[Ossai]

Azure

Which lead right back to being an irrational belief.

Your opinion.

Nope, by definition.

I guess they don't have their belief in the right order then.

No true Scottsman.

Its clear the 'faith' is a dominant principle in the NT.

For yourself, maybe, but there are millions of Christians that would be overjoyed at even the smallest amount of real physical evidence.

Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming…How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer…thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. (Isaiah 14:9-16 KJV)

1. Isaiah was a false prophet, at least according to the rules set forth in the bible, therefore anything reported by Isaiah is at best suspect and at worse a deliberate falsehood.
2. Lucifer is not Satan. If you would bother to read your bible that would be quiet apparent.

Again, where is it reported that Satan fell? Chapter & verse please.

Revelation is not all prophecy..

And there was war in heaven…Satan was cast out (Revelation 12:7-9)

Some parts of Revelation may not be prophecy, but 12:7-9 are most definitely prophecy. Go read it in context.

Are you lying now or earlier when you said you were Christian?

Liar.

Ok, I accept that you are a liar, but that wasn’t my question.
Were you lying when you said that you were not Christian or earlier when you said you were? You keep waffling on position so I’m not entirely certain whether or not you consider yourself Christian.

Ossai

 

[KingMerv00]

Sure, if you want to generalize it.

I believe in science, yes, but I also believe there HAS to be a supernatural force holding everything together.

Why?

Why doesn't God need Super-God to hold HIM together.

 

[KingMerv00]

I'm still wavering on the whole God idea. I'll tell you why:
Consider our universe and the physical constants that govern the behaviour of matter and energy.

If any of those constants were different we would have a very different universe. Quite likely a universe in which life as we know it would not be possible.

OK so what? Maybe a different type of universe would have a different type of life. Maybe not.

All I know is that this universe out of all the possible ones, does have life (intelligent? I leave that for the reader to decide).

I am inclined to think that there may be some underling principle to the physical constants that lead to the emergence of life in general and intelligent life in particular.

So why should we have a universe (the only one we know of) which has such physical constants when there are literally an infinity of other possibilities?
I suppose this is a version of the anthropic principal. But I don't think it means that the universe was created specifically for humans. I think it means that a universe without life is meaningless. Of course that could just be my bias.

I don't believe in a God who answers prayers or performs miracles on a whim.
I don't believe in creationism or ID as the kids like to call it these days. I think trying to use the bible or any other religious text as cosmology is just too stupid for words.

I do believe that the fact I am here typing this gibberish proves something about the nature of our universe as opposed to the infinity of other possible universes. Just what it amounts to I'm not quite sure. Can I call it God, or is that just me trying to fill a gap in my knowledge?

Anyway an astronomer called Paul Davies has written a very good book on this subject called "The Mind Of God" I recommend it if you are interested.

The only reason life seems unlikely is because you are look back on the timeline from the present. Someone (can't remember who) made the analogy that the configuration of the universe is like configuration of a set of billard balls after the break. The odds of the balls ending up exactly where they are is very small but it isn't the act of a divine being. If you could guess the outcome BEFORE the break, that would be amazing.

The universe could have had three outcomes:

1) Intelligent life exists as it does in our universe.

2) Intelligent life could exist in some other way. The laws of nature might even be different.

3) There could be no life at all.

Outcomes 1 and 2 would have life forms wondering how amazing it is that they are lucky enough to be alive. "What are the odds of the red sun being just the right distance for us to have liquid propane for us to drink...AMAZING!"

Outcome 3? Pretty sure know one would care.

Anyway, a randomly generated universe is indistinguishable from a deist one. Occam's Razor makes the former seem more likely.

 

[Palimpsest]

Azure
For yourself, maybe, but there are millions of Christians that would be overjoyed at even the smallest amount of real physical evidence.

Not just would be, but are overjoyed: witness all the believers yammering on about the Shroud of Turin, weeping statues, or flocking to a Chicago underpass and so forth.