Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

[Huntster]

Huntster
Don’t you ever get tired of lying?

How about actually reading what the
RCC teaches about Hell instead of making sht up.

I've read extensively on the subject, including your citation:

IV. Hell


1033
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."


1034
Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna," of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616


1035
The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.


1036
The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618


Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619


1037
God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621


Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

Explain how your claims fit the above statement:

A person ignorant of your god = straight to hell
A person raised in another culture, but has heard of the RCC/Christianity/etc = straight to hell
A person whom committees evil their entire life but confesses on their death bed = heaven
A person raised in the church but has never taken communion = hell?
A person mentally incapable of making a free choice to exclude or include god = hell?

Who's the liar?

 

[Paulhoff]

Anything about a god in the bible is not a truth.

Paul

 

[zizzybaluba]

Uh I don't think so. I know what I believe. And Jesus has revealed Himself to me so how can you assume He hasn't?

I really hate quoting the dictionary. Please note number 5.

Main Entry: as·sume
1 a : to take up or in : RECEIVE b : to take into partnership, employment, or use
2 a : to take to or upon oneself : UNDERTAKE <assume responsibility> b : PUT ON, DON c : to place oneself in <assume a position>
3 : SEIZE, USURP <assume control>
4 : to pretend to have or be : FEIGN <assumed an air of confidence in spite of her dismay>
5 : to take as granted or true : SUPPOSE <I assume he'll be there>
6 : to take over (the debts of another) as one's own

 

[kurious_kathy]

Anything about a god in the bible is not a truth.

Paul

I disagree with you whole heartedly. The just shall live by faith!

I received this e-mail yesterday that explains it pretty well...

Living by Faith Contrasted with Living by Law


For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is
written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are
written in the book of the law, to do them." But that no one is justified
by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "The just shall live by
faith." Yet the law is not of faith, but "The man who does them shall live
by them."
Galatians 3:10-12


In our previous meditation, we considered God's call to live by faith,
given through the prophet Habakkuk. "Behold the proud, his soul is not
upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith" (Habakkuk 2:4). We
also looked at the first of three appearances of this quote in the New
Testament. "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ... for in it the
righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written,
"The just shall live by faith." (Romans 1:16-17).The second appearance is
given in Galatians, where living by faith is contrasted with living by law.

This contrast between law and faith involves a curse that is related to the
law. "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse." The
curse is upon those who attempt to establish an acceptable relationship
with God based on human works, as measured by God's holy law. The
accompanying Old Testament quote explains the curse. "For it is written,
"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written
in the book of the law, to do them." The curse is that those who choose to
live by human performance under the law must always accomplish everything
the law commands. Performance of some of the law's demands some of the time
is unacceptable. This comprehensive pressure requiring perfect performance
may seem curse enough. Yet, the consequences of inevitable failure
intensifies the curse. This dreadful consequence can be seen in the
reminder of the blessed remedy that God's grace provides. "Christ has
redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it
is written, 'Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree')" (Galatians 3:13-14).
Those who violate any portion of the law's demands deserve the judgment
that Jesus took on the cross.

This gracious provision of salvation through the substitutionary death of
Christ reminds us that faith, not law, is our abundant hope. "But that no
one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for 'The just
shall live by faith.'" Faith involves depending upon the work of another,
even Christ. Living by law is not living by faith. It is living by human
performance. "Yet the law is not of faith, but "The man who does them shall
live by them."

This was forwarded to me by my friends at refuge ministries so I'm not sure who wrote it, but I must say I agree with this perspective.

 

[Tanstaafl]

The law I live under doesn't require perfection.

Most of it I have no problem with either, although the part about speed limits is problematic.

Now, if I felt compelled to live rigorously under old testament law, that would be extremely burdensome. I can understand looking for a way out from that.

 

[Freethinker]

I disagree with you whole heartedly. The just shall live by faith!

I received this e-mail yesterday that explains it pretty well...

Your post is totally unrelated to the post you are replying to. Are you unable to process that your answer is supposed to have some relevance to the original or do you just spew forth whatever happens to be at hand? You state you disagree "whole heartedly". Fine. That's your opinion. Then you go on to make statements and copy a post from Troy's friends at Blue Letter Bible that have nothing whatsoever to do with what Paul posted.

 

[The Atheist]

Well for starters the “sick evil bastard” is a direct description of YHWH/Jesus/Holy Spirit.
Sick = mentally ill in this case. YHWH flip flops a number of times on positions in both the old and new testament.
Evil = ultimate cause of all evil
Bastard = Mary wasn’t married, she was promised to Joseph, but the claim is that she was knocked up by YHWH. Either way, child out of wedlock or child of an affair is generally referred to as a bastard.

Ossai

Brilliant! I can't find fault with that in any way.

 

[The Atheist]

Thanks to Huntster for posting this:

1037
God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621

That's the piece I love best about RCC. During my life, I am welcome to break every commandment as many times as I like, but as long as I "accept" Jesus on my death-bed, I still get to go to heaven.

Thank god I'm going to hell!

 

[Paulhoff]

Faith does not mean TRUTH KK, the bible was written by men, not any god, if you believe that, fine, but believing doesn't make it so. Believing in the bible has true will only make it easier for you to believe in other things that are not true. The bible says the earth does not move, not true.

Paul



Me having faith that you will one day wake up, doesn't make to true.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Please tell a Japanese Samurai that, it would be something to see.

Paul

Why do you suggest that? Sepaku isn't suicide, it is (as explained to me some years ago) a matter of doing your feudal lord the courtesy of killing yourself so he doesn't have to dirty his hands with the task: delegated execution.

DR

 

[Ossai]

Huntster

1033
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him.
. . .
To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

That condemns:
A person ignorant of your god = straight to hell
A person raised in another culture, but has heard of the RCC/Christianity/etc = straight to hell
A person mentally incapable of making a free choice to exclude or include god = hell

Who's the liar?

That would be you, Huntster, yet again.

Ossai

 

[Darth Rotor]

Jesus was not prefect according to your own bible, he got mad in a temple

So? Given the triune deity model, this exercise of laying a little smackdown is consistent with OT accounts of divine swatting of miscreants: pillars of salt, Sodom and Gomorrah being toasted.

he question{sic} his so-called father on the cross

Again considering the triune deity model, your remark is incorrect as it finds Jesus talking to himself. Curious behavior, for sure, though perhaps understandable given the bloody spikes in his hand. Or not.

Perhaps he figured it was time to share his inner monologue with the rest of the folks present. A lot is left unexplained, for sure, but the behavior is consistent with the model.

DR

 

[Paulhoff]

By any other name, it is still suicide.

Paul



"..no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton

 

[Darth Rotor]

By any other name, it is still suicide.

Paul



"..no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton

"He won it." But I agree completely with the sentiment.

You are correct, technically, though not on cultural context. As I failed to specify context, your arrow was well aimed. Touche

DR

 

[Huntster]

...Thank god I'm going to hell!

Yet again, in accordance with RCC doctrine, you're going to have to thank yourself.

 

[Huntster]

Huntster

Quote:
1033
We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him.
. . .
To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

That condemns:
A person ignorant of your god = straight to hell

That's incorrect (or a lie). If you're ignorant of God (don't know about Him), you cannont know or reject Him.

A person raised in another culture, but has heard of the RCC/Christianity/etc = straight to hell

That's incorrect (or a lie). If you're ignorant of God (don't know about Him), you cannont know or reject Him.

A person mentally incapable of making a free choice to exclude or include god = hell

That's incorrect (or a lie). If you're ignorant of God (don't know about Him), you cannont know or reject Him.

Quote:
Who's the liar?

That would be you, Huntster, yet again.

No it wouldn't, child. That would be you.

 

[The Atheist]

Yet again, in accordance with RCC doctrine, you're going to have to thank yourself.

Now you're just being silly, Huntster (not to mention being totally lacking in a sense of humour). Who makes those rules, your god or me?

Tell me, Hunstster, do you hang around all these atheists because you think you'll convert some; because you think god's going to give you extra Brownie points for trying; because you're a masochist; or some other completely different reason? (In which case, I'd be fascinated to know). The obvious comparison would be me going and posting for over a year in a christian forum, and there's no way I'd bother - I've never subscribed to the idea of bashing my head against a brick wall so it feels better when I stop. Kathy, I can understand, becuase she's a fundamental christian and they're masochists by necessity, but to find a Catholic in here pointlessly arguing RC doctrine with a bunch of sceptics and atheists seems the most futile exercise you could possibly choose.

 

[Ossai]

Huntster

A person ignorant of your god = straight to hell

That's incorrect (or a lie). If you're ignorant of God (don't know about Him), you cannont know or reject Him.

Too bad it doesn’t say REJECT,

We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him.

If a person is ignorant of god, then they cannot freely choose to love god.

Yet again you prove your true colors by denying what is clearly stated, again and again and again.

Huntster, you are a liar. You have proven so multiple times on these boards.

Ossai

 

[Cleon]

Tell me, Hunstster, do you hang around all these atheists because you think you'll convert some;

Not everyone here is an atheist.

 

[The Atheist]

Not everyone here is an atheist.

Genius!

Did I suggest they were? Since I'm directing a question at a CATHOLIC, I think that's pretty bloody obvious, actually.