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Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

God turned away from Jesus on the cross? That's an interpretation I hadn't heard of.
Well that's what happened. God is Holy and cannot look at sin. Once we receive Jesus God see's Him in us which is how we are reconciled through the sacrifice of Christ. I am still astounded how Jesus found the strength to go through it. No other man could or would do it for us.
I guess that's why scripture tells us all things were created by Him and for Him. The first re-born of the dead. The spiritual rebirth is significant and I would strongly suggest you rethink your stand of atheism.


If God is all powerful, he could have done it at any time without any sacrifice whatsoever on anyone's part.
That wasn't the plan. It's God's plan so just accept it as the truth and just watch what it can do to change your heart and mind.


But most of us here do not take God's love for granted. We don't take it at all. We don't believe in God. That's what "atheist" means, don't you know?
Then I have to say I feel sorry for you because that's a foolish thing to do. Deny your maker and His free gift of salvation... Doesn't that appear stupid to you? Don't be fools God loves you so much He died to save you!
 
It could just as easily mean Christ wondered if God had forsaken him.

Some early Christian sects (Ooh! there's got to be something there for your new thread. Something about "sects acts"...) believed that Jesus the man and Christ the spirit were two separate beings. They maintained that Christ came to reside in Jesus at the moment he was baptized by John because he was a righteous man, and that Christ left Jesus on the cross, thus the "Why have you forsaken me?" line. Then because Jesus the man had been such a swell guy and faithful servant God raised him from the dead as a reward. There were several interpretations of that line that are only forgotten today because of the politics of the establishment of Christian Orthodoxy.
 
Ha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha

Paul

:) :) :) :)

Oh, my sides hurt
What's wrong with you? Do you want me to cast that demon out of you in the name of Jesus so maybe you can finally know the truth?

Hark the Angels are singing, can't you hear them? They sing glory to the King. Oh yes, one of my favorite names for Jesus is, "King of the Angels."
 
Well that's what happened. God is Holy and cannot look at sin. Once we receive Jesus God see's Him in us which is how we are reconciled through the sacrifice of Christ.
So God won't even look at us until we are redeemed by Christ? What a total snot! Even more reason why I'm glad the God you believe in doesn't exist.

I am still astounded how Jesus found the strength to go through it. No other man could or would do it for us.
Many men (and women) have suffered much worse. You might have even done so yourself. You've had pain for a lot longer than one day.

I guess that's why scripture tells us all things were created by Him and for Him. The first re-born of the dead. The spiritual rebirth is significant and I would strongly suggest you rethink your stand of atheism.
All for Him? Not one bit for anyone else? What a selfish bastard! I am really glad your God is a myth. And I have thought about my atheism many times, and it is still the best thing going. The more I hear of your concept of God, the more I am convinced of that.

That wasn't the plan. It's God's plan so just accept it as the truth and just watch what it can do to change your heart and mind.
First accept, then change my mind? Why don't you first accept atheism and then change your heart and mind, if you think its such a simple thing to do. No? There's a word for those that tell others to do what they refuse to do. It starts with an "H".

Then I have to say I feel sorry for you because that's a foolish thing to do. Deny your maker and His free gift of salvation... Doesn't that appear stupid to you? Don't be fools God loves you so much He died to save you!
No, it dost appear stupid to me. It appears eminently logical and rational to reject fairy tales and stories of magical beings.

But if your God is dead, as you tell me, I'd be glad to send a condolence card if you'll give me his mailing address.
 
So God won't even look at us until we are redeemed by Christ? What a total snot! Even more reason why I'm glad the God you believe in doesn't exist.
You are so very wrong about that.


Many men (and women) have suffered much worse. You might have even done so yourself. You've had pain for a lot longer than one day.
Well Gods grace is very sufficiant for me. There are many times throughout the day the Holy Spirit does touch me and I feel a relief I couldn't really explain. It's like chills throughout my body and then the pain is relived for a while. I still do take tylenol when I need to manage it as well. But look, I'm not addicted to vicadin like so many others out there struggling with pain. God really does make the difference. Because of Him I can endure whatever this life brings.



All for Him? Not one bit for anyone else? What a selfish bastard! I am really glad your God is a myth. And I have thought about my atheism many times, and it is still the best thing going. The more I hear of your concept of God, the more I am convinced of that.
and I'll continue telling you that you've got God all wrong. He is there and He is in control of your life whether you admit it or not. Of course He still lets you have your own free will which in my opinion is the big problem.


First accept, then change my mind? Why don't you first accept atheism and then change your heart and mind, if you think its such a simple thing to do. No? There's a word for those that tell others to do what they refuse to do. It starts with an "H".
I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. You guys spend way more energy trying to disprove God is there, but you are very deceived if you really believe that. Just rember what scripture says...God planted eternity in the human heart. No one will be able to stand before God and makes excuses for denying Christ, nobody!



No, it dost appear stupid to me. It appears eminently logical and rational to reject fairy tales and stories of magical beings.

But if your God is dead, as you tell me, I'd be glad to send a condolence card if you'll give me his mailing address.
God still accept knee mail Tricky, try it sometime you may be truely surprised.
 
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The only place your so-called god lives in your head KK, poor poor KK.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
The only place your so-called god lives in your head KK, poor poor KK.

Paul
You wouldn't know truth if it bit you in the you know what Paul. But I'm gona keep praying God will somehow turn you around so you can be saved too.

I was once blind to it just like you are now, but as my theme song "Amazing Grace" says....I was blind and now I see. This too could happen for you if you wanted to really seek, find, and know God.
 
I was once blind to it just like you are now, but as my theme song "Amazing Grace" says....I was blind and now I see. This too could happen for you if you wanted to really seek, find, and know God.
I was once a believer like you. I can confidently tell you that it is you who are blind.
 
You are so very wrong about that.
Or you are. I like my chances of being right better than yours.

Well Gods grace is very sufficiant for me. There are many times throughout the day the Holy Spirit does touch me and I feel a relief I couldn't really explain. It's like chills throughout my body and then the pain is relived for a while. I still do take tylenol when I need to manage it as well. But look, I'm not addicted to vicadin like so many others out there struggling with pain. God really does make the difference. Because of Him I can endure whatever this life brings.
If you are right about God, then He is the one who allowed you to have this problem in the first place. To thank Him for giving you some comfort from what He sent in the first place makes no sense to me. But I truly hope you feel better and get better. Call it "an atheist's prayer". It is every bit as efficacious as a Christian's prayer.

and I'll continue telling you that you've got God all wrong. He is there and He is in control of your life whether you admit it or not. Of course He still lets you have your own free will which in my opinion is the big problem.
LOL. Yeah, God really screwed up when he gave us free will, eh? So even if you are correct, I'm using the brain He gave me. How could that be wrong? Why would He punish me for using His gifts?

I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. You guys spend way more energy trying to disprove God is there, but you are very deceived if you really believe that.
Not really. I don't believe anything can be "proved". I am happy to discuss it with you or anybody else, but I don't need to prove it. The evidence speaks for itself, if only you will listen.

Just rember what scripture says...God planted eternity in the human heart. No one will be able to stand before God and makes excuses for denying Christ, nobody!
If that happens, which I greatly doubt, I have nothing to be ashamed of. I am a good person who has tried very hard to do the right things as best as I can understand. I don't believe your God or any God would punish me for living my life in this manner. If you do, then I feel very sorry for you and your God because you are both incapable of unconditional love.

God still accept knee mail Tricky, try it sometime you may be truely surprised.
I tried it for a big part of my life. I got no replies. If your God exists, He knows where I am. He can initiate communication. All my channels are wide open.
 
Your self deception is so unreal, I do feel sorry for your limited insight to your own mind and how you are kidding yourself. What is wrong with you, can’t you give yourself credit for straighten out your life. You have to turn it over to a so-called god, you should feel better about yourself without the need of something at isn’t there.

Paul

:) :) :)

You shouldn't feel so little of yourself.
 
I have to ask the Douglas Adams/George Orwell question here, mate.

Why, if you think like that, do you need to bring fairies into it? Can't you accept the wisdom of Jesus' teaching without needing him to be a god?
Yes, I can, because I think it is true regardless of whether God exist or nots, or if he does exist and is a heartless bastard. I think God is more interested in what I posted than in people worshipping him. But 2 points. I think by spending time in his loving company, through prayer etc, people can become more like him. As I believe he exists I think that people can grow into better people through relating to him. Also I think that God is worth worshipping form the POV of Plato's Forms, as in the instinctive, natural reaction to being in the presence of something amazing is awe and wonder - ie worshipping God.

I'm only going to take issue with the first sentence of that.

If your god loves us all so much, why does he let sinless children starve to death so agonisingly? Not a lot to be too proud of, in my book.
First I'm not sure what 'sinless' has to do with things.

Modern science teaches us that the universe is an incredible, amazing, beautiful and mind-blowing place. And humans can be amazing too. The universe has developed through natural laws and humans have developed through evolution. Although the God you reject appears to tinker all the time all over the place in these physical laws, mine is not sticking his finger in the pie all the time. I believe God does work on a spiritual level, but that isn't material. I believe God might do some material stuff because of what people have told me - I won't rule it out - but it appears that, on the whole, God lets his natural processes work. I mean wouldn't it be more satisfying to make something that works and doesn't have you tinkering al the time in it?

That leads me to the conclusion that God does value me and my life, as he creates and loves it, but that pain and death are not so important to God as other things. Nervous Systems have evolved and are very useful things - besides I can get a lot of pleasure out of mine (I assume you do too!). So the next question is what are these other things and do I consider them to be sufficient? Am I in a position to answer those questions well? People believe that some things are more important than life - certain values etc, for instance. Those who believe that there is some sort of afterlife see that as a factor when we see the child die. I have left the lasy bit short as I want to have some lunch now!
 
Yes, I can, because I think it is true regardless of whether God exist or nots, or if he does exist and is a heartless bastard. I think God is more interested in what I posted than in people worshipping him. But 2 points. I think by spending time in his loving company, through prayer etc, people can become more like him.
Do we really know what God is like? Would we want to be like Him? Is it even possible?

As I believe he exists I think that people can grow into better people through relating to him. Also I think that God is worth worshipping form the POV of Plato's Forms, as in the instinctive, natural reaction to being in the presence of something amazing is awe and wonder - ie worshipping God.
The way you phrase this, it almost seems like you use your concept of God as a sort of tool for self-improvement, like yoga or TM, or like a nature-lover might simply "commune" with giant sequoyias or sumpin.

First I'm not sure what 'sinless' has to do with things.
I'm not even sure what "sin" is.

Modern science teaches us that the universe is an incredible, amazing, beautiful and mind-blowing place. And humans can be amazing too. The universe has developed through natural laws and humans have developed through evolution. Although the God you reject appears to tinker all the time all over the place in these physical laws, mine is not sticking his finger in the pie all the time. I believe God does work on a spiritual level, but that isn't material. I believe God might do some material stuff because of what people have told me - I won't rule it out - but it appears that, on the whole, God lets his natural processes work. I mean wouldn't it be more satisfying to make something that works and doesn't have you tinkering al the time in it?
Yes, we see an almost complete scale in beliefs as to the level of God's intervention in the universe, from "nothing" at the pantheist end of the scale, to "everything" at some of the more fundamentalist end of the scale. But it seems to me that if God does intervene, even if only rarely, then the whole question of His goodness comes into question. There are so many cases where it would seem that a good God would intervene if it were possible. Why would you want to be like a God who does nothing while horrible things happen, even though He could? That is not an entity I would want to emulate.

That leads me to the conclusion that God does value me and my life, as he creates and loves it, but that pain and death are not so important to God as other things.
It leads me to the opposite conclusion, and I have a hard time figuring how God's passivity indicates his love.

Nervous Systems have evolved and are very useful things - besides I can get a lot of pleasure out of mine (I assume you do too!).
None of your beeswax.;)

So the next question is what are these other things and do I consider them to be sufficient? Am I in a position to answer those questions well? People believe that some things are more important than life - certain values etc, for instance. Those who believe that there is some sort of afterlife see that as a factor when we see the child die.
You're hitting pretty close to the mark here, Mr. C. Lots of people seem to value God because they see Him as a way to the afterlife, and having an afterlife is so very important for them, especially after the loss of a loved one. As for other values, well, we have other threads discussing this, but suffice it to say that religion is not the sole provenance of morality and values.

I have left the lasy bit short as I want to have some lunch now!
Hope it was enjoyable, but if you had a vindaloo curry, then I must ask you to keep a safe distance.;)
 
kurious_kathy

I was once blind to it just like you are now, but as my theme song "Amazing Grace" says....I was blind and now I see. This too could happen for you if you wanted to really seek, find, and know God.

kk,
you keep going on and on about how god saved you from a horrible life yet the life he saved you from was as an adult, as a person capable of making their own decisions, you made your life what it was and i'm sure it was as bad as you say but it was still all on you, maybe you were weak enough to need a crutch to change things but not everyone is like you

there are children who go thru so much worse than you could ever imagine who believe and pray for help every night and trust with everything in them that god will save them or at least make the pain bearable, pain they are going thrrough that is no fault of their own,
children that learn by the time they are 12 or 13 that there is no one listening when they pray or cry and that if life is going to get better they have no one to depend on but themselves

such a child knows more about chronic pain and suffering than you will ever know and while there might be a small few who try to cling to a god most give up that fairytale at a young age especially since the physical effects of that childhood will never be healed, things such as heart conditions brought on by extreme stress, arthritis in multiple joints from broken bones and the list goes on

some of us make it to be productive adults who can learn to love others and try to make life better for others, we manage to make it for close to 50 years without hurting anyone and putting others first without some childhood fantasy to lean on and take responsibility for us, we may have a hard time trusting others but we overcome even that and when everyone that has ever let you down has a complete belief in some god, that is just one more reason to know there is no god

sherry
 
Do we really know what God is like? Would we want to be like Him? Is it even possible?
These I find interesting questions, especially 'what might God be like?' He is described as loving but is not sentimental goo. I think 'loving' in the sense of 'wanting the best for us, respecting that person and their wishes, even if it costs us' is some sort of definition. I think that actually a lot of the time we would not like to be like God because it is too costly - we can want things easy in life, but for God, life is not about having things easy but being more. I think he is loving but is not operating in a vacuum. We would agree that not all things that we don't like are bad for us and can make us grow as people - discipline, for instance, in learning a skill. So a loving parent is going to want a child to undergo things it might find painful at the time. Jesus might have been an interesting character to know

The way you phrase this, it almost seems like you use your concept of God as a sort of tool for self-improvement, like yoga or TM, or like a nature-lover might simply "commune" with giant sequoyias or sumpin.
I don't use it enough! I mention the Forms because it is a concept which makes sense to me as to why I would want to worship God. Haven't you had times when you felt very close to friends, "communed" with them?
And don't insult my friends, the Redwoods, they're lovely!

I'm not even sure what "sin" is.
Being self-centred/selfish and acting that way. Something like that.

Yes, we see an almost complete scale in beliefs as to the level of God's intervention in the universe, from "nothing" at the pantheist end of the scale, to "everything" at some of the more fundamentalist end of the scale. But it seems to me that if God does intervene, even if only rarely, then the whole question of His goodness comes into question. There are so many cases where it would seem that a good God would intervene if it were possible. Why would you want to be like a God who does nothing while horrible things happen, even though He could? That is not an entity I would want to emulate.
Yes, this for me is a very important and significant question which demands a lot of consideration, time and energy. Would you lay out some of these different types of cases? God doesn't interven in natural disasters, letting natural forces take their course - he will not stop the asteroid that might wipe us out. God appears to me more interested in matters of the personality and spirit, helping someone come to terms with death rather than keeping them alive.

It leads me to the opposite conclusion, and I have a hard time figuring how God's passivity indicates his love.
I see the analogies of God as creator and God as parent helpful here as to why God would look on us with pride and love.

You're hitting pretty close to the mark here, Mr. C. Lots of people seem to value God because they see Him as a way to the afterlife, and having an afterlife is so very important for them, especially after the loss of a loved one. As for other values, well, we have other threads discussing this, but suffice it to say that religion is not the sole provenance of morality and values.
For me it is worthwile pondering what these values might be. I think humans growing up to be responsible, mature (which doesn't mean dour or boring), loving, generous, strong, standing up for what is right even if it is costly. It is a very hard road, one which few people, I think, get very far down. A road very less travelled.

Hope it was enjoyable, but if you had a vindaloo curry, then I must ask you to keep a safe distance.;)
I am sitting with thee only cheeks near the internet being my rosy unshaved ones (which still might not be reassuring).
 
These I find interesting questions, especially 'what might God be like?' He is described as loving but is not sentimental goo. I think 'loving' in the sense of 'wanting the best for us, respecting that person and their wishes, even if it costs us' is some sort of definition. I think that actually a lot of the time we would not like to be like God because it is too costly - we can want things easy in life, but for God, life is not about having things easy but being more. I think he is loving but is not operating in a vacuum. We would agree that not all things that we don't like are bad for us and can make us grow as people - discipline, for instance, in learning a skill. So a loving parent is going to want a child to undergo things it might find painful at the time.
I have a hard time with the "God as a parent" analogy. It makes some points, true, but a (good) parent would intervene if a child's life were endangered to the point of certain death if they didn't intervene. A good parent would not withhold love eternally for any infraction, however severe. (Yes, I know this is not one of your beliefs, but it is a common one in some Xtian sects.)

However, I will say that as analogies go, God the Parent is better than God the Shepherd. The latter implies that God wants us here so he can fleece and eventually eat us.;)

Jesus might have been an interesting character to know.
I'm sure he (or they) would be.

I don't use it enough! I mention the Forms because it is a concept which makes sense to me as to why I would want to worship God. Haven't you had times when you felt very close to friends, "communed" with them?
And don't insult my friends, the Redwoods, they're lovely!
Absolutely. But they were always either there or in some sort of physical contact, e.g. on the phone. Same with our friends the Redwoods. I don't hug intangible Redwoods.

Being self-centred/selfish and acting that way. Something like that.
I think of that more as being short sighted. IMO, we all operate out of self-interest, but as we learn more, we find that altruism is of greater worth, so we selfishly choose that. I believe it is called "enlightened self-interest".

Aren't you being selfish in wanting eternal life for yourself and your loved ones?

Yes, this for me is a very important and significant question which demands a lot of consideration, time and energy. Would you lay out some of these different types of cases? God doesn't interven in natural disasters, letting natural forces take their course - he will not stop the asteroid that might wipe us out. God appears to me more interested in matters of the personality and spirit, helping someone come to terms with death rather than keeping them alive.
Well, a deist, for example, might say God intervened once: To create the universe, and hasn't done so since.

As I understand it, orthodox folk like yourself believe He (physically) intervenes "occasionally" but not predictably, preferring to keep his interventions spiritual, hence, objectively indetectable.

People who offer intercessory prayers believe that God often intervenes if you are pious enough. If a person miraculously survives a bad illness or is rescued from a cave-in in a mine or something, that was God intervening.

Someone like Reverend Pat Robertson, who blamed the destruction of New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina on their sinful ways, believes that God intervenes in almost all things, though sometimes we don't understand why He is doing it. (Though Pat seems to think he has a closer understanding than most of God's thinking.)

I see the analogies of God as creator and God as parent helpful here as to why God would look on us with pride and love.
Ah, but it is still just an analogy, and analogies are like stools. If you knock off one leg, they fall over. (How's that for a bad analogy?)

God as a creator works fine, so long as you don't assign God any other tasks than creation.

God as a parent fails on many levels, for example, my parents raised me so that I could function by myself once they were gone. Does God do that?

For me it is worthwile pondering what these values might be. I think humans growing up to be responsible, mature (which doesn't mean dour or boring), loving, generous, strong, standing up for what is right even if it is costly. It is a very hard road, one which few people, I think, get very far down. A road very less travelled.
I agree completely. And you notice, you didn't have to mention God in this paragraph to reach that conclusion.

I am sitting with thee only cheeks near the internet being my rosy unshaved ones (which still might not be reassuring).
Not at all reassuring. Those are the ones whose words I fear the most.
 
Huntster
The "dark night of the soul". Even Christ endured it.
Funny that. Jesus seem to be repeating verse, specifically from Psalms, like any devout Jewish person would.

kurious_kathy
Well that's what happened. God is Holy and cannot look at sin.
But god created sin.

I am still astounded how Jesus found the strength to go through it. No other man could or would do it for us.
You do realize that just going by biblical accounts, Jesus was a rebellious person and was executed. Millions of people have gone through that.

I guess that's why scripture tells us all things were created by Him and for Him. The first re-born of the dead.
Nope wrong again. You really should take the time to read, cover to cover, the book you purport to believe and follow. That does include all the naughty bits and murders, genocides, rapes, etc.

Who else is resurrected in the Bible?

Old Testament
The widow’s son
1 Kings 17:17 - 24
And it came to pass after these things, that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, fell sick; and his sickness was so sore, that there was no breath left in him.
And she said unto Elijah, What have I to do with thee, O thou man of God? art thou come unto me to call my sin to remembrance, and to slay my son?
And he said unto her, Give me thy son. And he took him out of her bosom, and carried him up into a loft, where he abode, and laid him upon his own bed.
And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.
And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

Another child
2 Kings 4:31 - 36
And Gehazi passed on before them, and laid the staff upon the face of the child; but there was neither voice, nor hearing. Wherefore he went again to meet him, and told him, saying, The child is not awaked.
And when Elisha was come into the house, behold, the child was dead, and laid upon his bed.
He went in therefore, and shut the door upon them twain, and prayed unto the LORD.
And he went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes.
And he called Gehazi, and said, Call this Shunammite. So he called her. And when she was come in unto him, he said, Take up thy son.

Some nameless man
2 Kings 13:20 - 21
And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

New Testament
Another man
Luke 7:12 - 15
Now when he came nigh to the gate of the city, behold, there was a dead man carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow: and much people of the city was with her.
And when the Lord saw her, he had compassion on her, and said unto her, Weep not.
And he came and touched the bier: and they that bare him stood still. And he said, Young man, I say unto thee, Arise.
And he that was dead sat up, and began to speak. And he delivered him to his mother.

Lazarus
John 11:37 - 44
And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.
Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.
Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

Not sure if you want to call it resurrection, but you also get a group of saints.
Matthew 27:50 - 53
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


The spiritual rebirth is significant and I would strongly suggest you rethink your stand of atheism.
How is it significant? What makes it so? It wasn’t the only reported resurrection nor was it even the first reported resurrection in the bible.

That wasn't the plan. It's God's plan so just accept it as the truth and just watch what it can do to change your heart and mind.
Since when have you been in direct communication with god to know god’s plan?

Deny your maker and His free gift of salvation
What free gift? As reported by you, one must give up their freewill, intellect, common sense, love of others, the price of the false gift is extreme.

Hark the Angels are singing, can't you hear them? They sing glory to the King. Oh yes, one of my favorite names for Jesus is, "King of the Angels."
Isn’t that Lucifer’s gig?

Ossai
 
Some early Christian sects (Ooh! there's got to be something there for your new thread. Something about "sects acts"...) believed that Jesus the man and Christ the spirit were two separate beings. They maintained that Christ came to reside in Jesus at the moment he was baptized by John because he was a righteous man, and that Christ left Jesus on the cross, thus the "Why have you forsaken me?" line. Then because Jesus the man had been such a swell guy and faithful servant God raised him from the dead as a reward. There were several interpretations of that line that are only forgotten today because of the politics of the establishment of Christian Orthodoxy.
In the interest of better rounding out my understanding, are there any particular articles, or books, that you recommend that discuss this theological position?

DR
 

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