Bullish on Bernie: The Bernie Sanders 2016 Thread

[Random]

Well... that cartoon can be taken in a sort of ironic/sarcastic light, that it is mocking the mindset that Bernie Sanders would be all that great. Or even at all significant if the GOP maintains its hold on at least one house of Congress and jams everything up like they have during the majority of Obama's tenure...

President Bernie would still be able to do a lot, even if the GOP controlled Congress. He would have control of the Justice Department for one thing, and I think that the Wall Street/banking sector would find him a lot less accommodating...

 

[Axiom_Blade]

There are almost insurmountable systemic disadvantages built into the American electoral system with regard to third parties.

All the more reason to challenge it. It's hardly going to get fixed if we just ignore it.

In general all they can do is subtract votes from the general election and usually those votes tend to come from one or the other of the main parties.

That's what the common wisdom says, but I question that. IIRC, Nader voters in 2000 came out to something like 20% Republican, 20% Democrat, and 60% other (who said they would not have voted otherwise). Third party candidates are great for engaging disaffected voters. I, myself, was at one time one of those kids who believed that voting was an utter waste of time. A friend of mine was running for city council, though, so I registered to vote so that I could vote for him. Then I discovered the Green Party. I can tell you that a Hillary Clinton or Rand Paul wouldn't have gotten me excited, but Peter Camejo and Ralph Nader did.

The problem is that Bernie Sanders is going to get all these kids' hopes up, and then when Clinton wins the nomination he'll just disappear. At least if he continued the campaign, we could see that he was willing to "fight the good fight", no matter how hopeless it might look. Instead, he's just roping in more voters for Clinton. Candidates like him inspire cynicism in the voting system, because they aren't serious.

The green party in the US is not Left equivilant to the Libertarian/Tea-Party on the Right. To find a most equitable Left group you would have to go to something like the Socialist Workers Party

I was just picking out the third and fourth most popular parties. I think that SWP gets even fewer votes. (Tea Party is very different than Libertarian, BTW.)

 

[Suddenly]

President Bernie would still be able to do a lot, even if the GOP controlled Congress. He would have control of the Justice Department for one thing, and I think that the Wall Street/banking sector would find him a lot less accommodating...

Eh. Not exactly a cure all. Then again:

Bernie Sanders being elected president would represent such a massive shift from present US political assumptions that assuming business as usual from the GOP is most likely unsound. I don't think the Koch brothers and their ilk survive such an event with even an ounce of political relevance, much less a hammer-lock on the GOP, so maybe the cartoon isn't all that far-fetched now that I think about it.

 

[Suddenly]

(Tea Party is very different than Libertarian, BTW.)

I'd lose the "very" as well as the capital "L." On the venn diagram of right wing crackpot populist nuttiness there is a large area falling within both the Tea Party and those making up the Libertarian Party. Michael Badnarik wasn't that long ago...

 

[logger]

jams everything up like they have during the majority of Obama's tenure...

Because Obama is some sort of king?

Wouldn't it show just a teensy bit of leadership if it wasn't all his way? Our president has all the leadership of a caboose.

 

[logger]

I think that the Wall Street/banking sector would find him a lot less accommodating...

Yes, that will surely help our ailing economy. I'm sure retirees and just about anyone who invests would be thrilled at the idea of a socialist as president. Of course as happened with Obama, the powers that be would get his mind right.

 

[Random]

Yes, that will surely help our ailing economy. I'm sure retirees and just about anyone who invests would be thrilled at the idea of a socialist as president. Of course as happened with Obama, the powers that be would get his mind right.

The financial sector is too important to our economy. At some point we have to address the incontrovertible fact that it is being run by a bunch of law-breaking sociopathic money junkies.

The backstabbing Obama was already in their pocket when he took over, he just gave some platitudes about cleaning up their irresponsible behavior without actually doing anything meaningful to stop it (even helping them squeeze more money from distressed homeowners with his worse than useless HAMP scheme).

 

[luchog]

Centrist decide elections.

Something which the hard line ideologues both Left and Right just don't get. They both thing there is some huge hidden left or right wing vote out there,and inevitably they are dissapointed.

And, given the way the electorial college votes are distributed,in a matchup of Sanders vs Any of the Major GOP candidtates, I would put my money on the GOP candidate.

I'd disagree. There is a great deal of frustration with how corporations are being pandered to by the politicos on both sides; and I think Sanders could take a huge chunk of the Centrists vs. any of the GOP crowd right now. I've even seen a significant number of people I'd describe as Center-Right making noises in favour of Sanders. The only truly anti- notes that I've seen so far are from the "He hasn't got a chance, he'll split the Left vote and doom us all to a Republican theocracy!" crowd, the Far Right "OMG COMMUNISM WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!" crowd, and the looney Libertarian crowd.

Given that the GOP candidates right now appear to be Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Chris Christie, Carly Fiorina, and Jeb Bush.

Huckabee is a non-starter, since he's controversial even among Far Right nutcases. No way he's going to pick up Centrists after the "I would have been transexual in high school to shower with the girls" nonsense. The man only opens his mouth to exchange feet. Not familiar with Chris Christie; but Santorum's pretty much a pair of clown shoes at the moment, and only likely to get worse. Rand Paul only motivates pseudo-libertarian whackjobs, and is way too far out to even consider giving the nomination to. Fiorina's a no-name after her disastrous tenure at HP. And about the last thing I think this country is going to elect is Yet Another Bush.

Cruz seems to be the only candidate who could possibly go toe to toe with either Clinton or Sanders.

 

[Random]

(snip)

Given that the GOP candidates right now appear to be Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Chris Christie, Carly Fiorina, and Jeb Bush.

Huckabee is a non-starter, since he's controversial even among Far Right nutcases. No way he's going to pick up Centrists after the "I would have been transexual in high school to shower with the girls" nonsense. The man only opens his mouth to exchange feet. Not familiar with Chris Christie; but Santorum's pretty much a pair of clown shoes at the moment, and only likely to get worse. Rand Paul only motivates pseudo-libertarian whackjobs, and is way too far out to even consider giving the nomination to. Fiorina's a no-name after her disastrous tenure at HP. And about the last thing I think this country is going to elect is Yet Another Bush.

Cruz seems to be the only candidate who could possibly go toe to toe with either Clinton or Sanders.

Chris Christie is not going to happen. He managed to attract a lot of national attention a few years ago by exploiting the similarities in appearance between tough-talking-get-things done-leaders, and arrogant-loud-mouthed-bullies, but he couldn't maintain the illusion. He scrapped a vital tunnel project out of political ideology and everyone is racing around trying to come up with a new fix, his blatant raiding of the state pension fund and going back on deals just got rejected by the courts, and don't get me started on Bridgegate. New Jersey is a mess, and Christie is largely to blame. As one commenter put it, "If you are going to be an a******, you need to deliver."

 

[Dr. Keith]

Chris Christie is not going to happen. He managed to attract a lot of national attention a few years ago by exploiting the similarities in appearance between tough-talking-get-things done-leaders, and arrogant-loud-mouthed-bullies, but he couldn't maintain the illusion. He scrapped a vital tunnel project out of political ideology and everyone is racing around trying to come up with a new fix, his blatant raiding of the state pension fund and going back on deals just got rejected by the courts, and don't get me started on Bridgegate. New Jersey is a mess, and Christie is largely to blame. As one commenter put it, "If you are going to be an a******, you need to deliver."

The highlighted hits the mark on Christie. A bit like the line from Mary Poppins:

George: My dear, never confuse efficiency with a liver complaint.

 

[Trakar]

I'd disagree. There is a great deal of frustration with how corporations are being pandered to by the politicos on both sides; and I think Sanders could take a huge chunk of the Centrists vs. any of the GOP crowd right now. I've even seen a significant number of people I'd describe as Center-Right making noises in favour of Sanders. The only truly anti- notes that I've seen so far are from the "He hasn't got a chance, he'll split the Left vote and doom us all to a Republican theocracy!" crowd, the Far Right "OMG COMMUNISM WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!" crowd, and the looney Libertarian crowd.

Given that the GOP candidates right now appear to be Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Rick Santorum, Chris Christie, Carly Fiorina, and Jeb Bush.

Huckabee is a non-starter, since he's controversial even among Far Right nutcases. No way he's going to pick up Centrists after the "I would have been transexual in high school to shower with the girls" nonsense. The man only opens his mouth to exchange feet. Not familiar with Chris Christie; but Santorum's pretty much a pair of clown shoes at the moment, and only likely to get worse. Rand Paul only motivates pseudo-libertarian whackjobs, and is way too far out to even consider giving the nomination to. Fiorina's a no-name after her disastrous tenure at HP. And about the last thing I think this country is going to elect is Yet Another Bush.

Cruz seems to be the only candidate who could possibly go toe to toe with either Clinton or Sanders.

Actually Rand is about the only R candidate with any real centrist and even moderate Left crossover appeal. Especially as his most repugnant and extreme conservatism seems forced and affected rather than natural and sincerely held. If he could shed that veil he might even actually get some moderate support in a national election. Rick Perry announced his candidacy this morning.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Actually Rand is about the only R candidate with any real centrist and even moderate Left crossover appeal. Especially as his most repugnant and extreme conservatism seems forced and affected rather than natural and sincerely held. If he could shed that veil he might even actually get some moderate support in a national election. Rick Perry announced his candidacy this morning.

The crossover appeal is something Bernie certainly has. I can't wait to have him get an opportunity to explain "Democratic Socialism" to a nation-wide audience. Many non-voters and even "republicans" might agree that it actually is a good thing.

 

[CORed]

All right both of you knock it off, my wife thinks I'm in here working, and every time I bust out laughing it blows my cover! If this keeps up she'll have me out mowing, fixing fences and weeding again.

Let the weeds and grass go tall enough, and nobody will be able to see the broken parts of the fence.

 

[Spindrift]

The crossover appeal is something Bernie certainly has. I can't wait to have him get an opportunity to explain "Democratic Socialism" to a nation-wide audience. Many non-voters and even "republicans" might agree that it actually is a good thing.

For which nation would that be?

 

[Childlike Empress]

For which nation would that be?

Uhm, Yankistan of course. Everybody else is quite aware of its meaning.

 

[Trakar]

The crossover appeal is something Bernie certainly has. I can't wait to have him get an opportunity to explain "Democratic Socialism" to a nation-wide audience. Many non-voters and even "republicans" might agree that it actually is a good thing.

If he does nothing else, bringing these conversions and understandings to the general American public would be worth the price of admission.

 

[Trakar]

Let the weeds and grass go tall enough, and nobody will be able to see the broken parts of the fence.

posting her response to your statement would have violated my MA, but I appreciate the sentiment of your response!

 

[luchog]

Actually Rand is about the only R candidate with any real centrist and even moderate Left crossover appeal. Especially as his most repugnant and extreme conservatism seems forced and affected rather than natural and sincerely held. If he could shed that veil he might even actually get some moderate support in a national election. Rick Perry announced his candidacy this morning.

Rand would also have to shed his anti-Semitism and other whackjob beliefs as well. The guy is a nutjob all around.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

The crossover appeal is something Bernie certainly has. I can't wait to have him get an opportunity to explain "Democratic Socialism" to a nation-wide audience. Many non-voters and even "republicans" might agree that it actually is a good thing.

It all depends upon how it's presented, of course. Sanders doesn't strike me as the most charismatic dude. In fact, he comes off as a grumpy old man. While it's certainly a good thing to get a conversation about socialism going, I don't think he's the best one to do it.

But, hey, I'll take what I can get.

 

[Spindrift]

It all depends upon how it's presented, of course. Sanders doesn't strike me as the most charismatic dude. In fact, he comes off as a grumpy old man. While it's certainly a good thing to get a conversation about socialism going, I don't think he's the best one to do it.

But, hey, I'll take what I can get.

But there's still the problem that a large portion of the population are allergic to even the mention of the word 'Socialism'.