epepke said:
With Buddhism, I hear over and over again that it isn't valid to think about it from the outside
Well, I can't speak for a lot of Buddhists, because I just did a little meditation for a couple of years and read a few books. Having said that, though, I think that's hogwash. You can't experience it from the outside, but it's ridiculous to say you can't think about it.
, that only those who undergo the praxis are fit to make statements about it.
Like with any experience based activity, there is a certain element that you just won't "get" unless you have done it. I am more "fit" to make statements about luge than you are, but that doesn't mean you can't think about it, analyse it, or compare it to other sleds you have ridden. Most times when I encounter this attitude from any religious people, I usually reach the conclusion that they don't understand their religion any better than you do, so they just retreat into their shells and say "You can't understand, because you aren't one of us!"
Did the Buddha only write for the benefit of the Sangha? Did he only spread his philosophy to those who had it? If Buddhism could only be commented on from the inside, the scriptures would have been a lot shorter.
Well, you see, that's a problem. I look to people who are practicing Buddhism, and I'm not all that impressed. They seem like any other people.
Yeah. Although, to be fair, a lot of Buddhists that you will encounter are not typical Buddhists. I would say computer forums would be one of the worst places to encounter representative Buddhists. But even among more typical encounters, looking at any religious community, most of the people will be just ordinary people.
If you meet a bunch of Buddhists, and you don't find any of them to be impressive in any way, then Buddhism is probably not right for you.
When I mentioned the encounters with spiritual people, and how some of them have an inner strength, I was thinking most of a community of Orthodox Jews. I've gotten to know a few since my wife met some taking Hebrew classes. It's a different world to go into that community, and you find some people in it who obviously lead happy lives, despite their lack of material possessions, and who have that inner strength. Doctrinally, I think their religion is, frankly, ridiculous. But it's working for them.
And, of course, once you get to know them, you realize that the community also includes every kind of jerk you encounter in the rest of the world as well.
With respect to Buddhism, all I can say is that I have met some people who seem to have benefitted from Buddhism, and were impressive people. I also think that almost anyone can benefit from the sort of spiritual practice that Buddhists do, but those same benefits could come from lots of non-Buddhist activities as well.
I haven't seen such people. Sure, they talk a good line, but it doesn't seem to be expressed in their behavior, which is all I can see. On the other hand, I've seen Buddhist monks getting their saffron robes in a twist about some pictures of women on a boat in perfectly decent opaque bikinis with a Buddhist temple in the background.
Was this issue girls in bikinis, or was the issue turning their temple into a tourist attraction? I'm picturing a travel magazine picture here. I have heard people of many religions complain about clueless tourists trampling around religious sites with no respect. When I was in Paris many years ago, there was a sign outside Notre Dame which said, "Le Cathedral n'est pas de musee. C'est une eglise!"
Typical French. They didn't write it in a language the offending American tourists could actually read, which would have said. "The Cathedral is not a museum. It is a church!"
