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Buddhism and Responsibility

I'm gonna take a shot at his reasoning.

1. "Karma" means good things happen to good people and bad things to bad people.
2. This means that if I can do bad things to bad people, that means they deserved it - I'm just the agent of Karma.
3. Therefore, anything I do is just and predetermined by Karma.
 
Harpyja said:
Hey, guys. I haven't been on here in a while, and I was wondering if some of you who are familiar with Buddhism can help me.

I have a friend who recently converted into what he calls Buddhism. I say "what he calls" because he has a nasty habit of cherry-picking only the things that he actually approves of from religions (he used to be Catholic and converted in college, through a process which I believe did not require much critical thought). I've caught him doing this with Christianity before, and I'm pretty much the only person who calls him out on his bull. He claims that the deterministic nature of Buddhism absolves him from personal responsibility and is using this basically as an excuse for not taking responsibility for his behavior (and, by extension, for not feeling guilty for not taking responsibility). I've been trying to do research into Buddhism myself, because what little I've found is pretty interesting, but I'm much more familiar with the Christian religions and, as I am a busy college Literature major, I'm kind of overwhelmed the sheer depth and scope of what I'm digging through.

I was wondering if there was anyone here more familiar with Buddhism and ethics that could give me a bit of a briefing as to where he's getting his ideas from and could direct me to where I can go online to learn more about the belief through a reputable, critical perspective.

:boxedin:
Click to expand...

Um, I am not sure i agree with determinism, there is no reincarnation in the Pali Canon. You get instant kamma.

But buddhism is a very big tent.
 
Interesting .. I was kinda Buddhist one time .. but these days I'm so deep in materialism, I can't even think about terms like responsibility. I now believe in complete lack of free will. I understand personal choices as combination of deterministic outer influences and random noise due to quantum indeterminism. Neither of those is 'free' in common sense.
Actually some Buddhism interpretation are not far from this. Big part of Buddhism is about how we do not control are lives. But it's also about Nirvana, how we can either control it, or at least how to stop playing the game (differs based on school).
In system without free will, word 'responsibility' has no meaning, except maybe for tracing individaul causes of phenomenons. In such meaning, everybody is responsible for anything he does .. even if he has no real choice over it. But the is just this very specific meaning.
 
Another way of looking at it...

I am new to this thread!
I was looking for a thread not plagued with aberrant atheism. I am happy to find some!
As far as I understand and experienced, Buddhism practice centers in the awakening of the individual from a state of "sleep-walker", which seems to be a common state among people. People will deny it. Some audience here will deny it too. But it is a fact.

Buddhism sustains the perfect state of mind is full awareness, meaning a consciousness focused in the Here and Now.
At first glance it seems simplistic as we all assume it is "so easy and naive", and "it is perfectly possible to reach such awake state without trouble".
As a matter of fact, a person is continuously immersed in thoughts, internal dialogue and imagination trips, having very little attention to what is actually happening around.
Another condition of the "zombie" (sleep-walker state) is he or she is not aware of such mental process taking place, which leads to the western conception of "subconscious" mind.
Hence, Buddhist practices aim to bring such state of buried mental activity into conscious focus, effectively awakening the person and bringing him to a "realization state" or Nirvana.

Contrary to common thoughts Nirvana is not a place "beyond", where we will be later in a spiritual form, although Nirvana does extend into such timeless realm.

Nirvana is just right Here and Now, which is actually Eternity, and it is the place where the awaken souls, still incarnated, dwell and develop further.

Paradoxically, a person or soul, having reached the Nirvana state (being a permanent situation at the Here and Now) becomes "free of his acts consequences", not by determinism but by the simple fact his actions will be accordingly ethic, moral, human, and spiritually sound!

In other words; a true awakened person is fully aware of his Cosmic relationships with Spirit, Nature, Life and and Death. It is impossible for a truly awakened soul to commit acts which would bring back "responsibilities".

His actions would only and invariably bring a clear "goodness" to the Whole. You can not be "responsible" of good actions. Those are not responsibilities but accomplishments.

Bringing back responsibilities would be what is called Karma or "bad" Karma if you want. Accomplishments would be understood as "good" Karma, although in pure Buddhist thought there is no such thing as "good" or "bad".

It is only... Karma! So reaching a fully awaken state, with all it's implications of universal understanding makes a person Karma free, or if taken paradoxically, without responsibilities!

It really is interesting! :)
 
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Yeah, sounds like your former friend is trying to skip the Eightfold Path and just get the results without any of the actual work.

The whole "no regrets" bit of Buddhism is due to following the principles of rightness. You have no regrets in the present because you behaved rightly in the past. By the way the Saccavibhanga Sutta specifically mentions sexual misconduct as being against right action.

Adherance to the Eightfold Path is part of the Four Noble Truths, which are the very core of Buddhist teaching. Anyone who claims to be Buddhist but does not follow that most basic of teachings is just blowing smoke.
 
Thanks DancingDavid!

I would like to add some interesting aspects of the hidden philosophy behind Buddhism and most religions.
Predominantly symbolic or hidden in parables the central teaching circles around the consciousness level and ways to attain it!
Religions based on Christ teachings and bible chapters, mainly new testament, offer constant references to the teaching.
"John, let the dead bury their dead and follow me"... Actually refers to leaving the "sleeping ones" and come to the awakening!
Job in the old testament expresses at the end of his suffering: "What I mostly feared happened to me". Meaning after all his struggle he becomes aware of his inner fear and such act brings recovery, that is he gets free of Karma!.
Yoga teaches how to get into "meditation" as a higher state of mind. Western culture understand "meditation" as "thinking hard and insistently", while the actual Yoga meditative state is a TOTAL absence of thought process... "When Mind gets as calm as a lake water when there is NO wind, you will see... TRUTH!" Being Truth the actual happening, the current instant with all its immense eternity, a frame of the endless universal movie!

Remember: "Those who have ears, listen and those who have eyes, see..."
It is the same thing; you can only listen NOW and you can only see NOW...

El Koran has many of those mentions as well. "Listen the the voice of Alah" ( hear your inner talk ). You can be aware of your thoughts ONLY NOW.

Western critics call the full awareness state as "existentialism", censoring it as an ill mind state as "we should be reasoning everything and mind never stops". At the same time Mind is misunderstood as the intellect. In reality, intellect is only a resource of Mind. Mind is the mirror where it projects to Consciousness, intellect, senses, thoughts and imagination.

Rationalists believe Intellect is the center of mind, but actually it is the center of the false Ego, which steals the seat belonging to Mind which is part of the higher self.

The above explains why rationalism and metaphysics are almost irreconcilable.
 
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Well as a naturalist nihilist buddhist pagan, I don't believe in a mind, I believe in a brain. And it appears that the 'mind' is just brain functions.

YMMV
 
You have the right to be wrong, DancingDavid!
Mike

P.S. Did I crash on an atheist thread? Oh!
 
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MikeAparicio said:
You have the right to be wrong, DancingDavid!
Mike

P.S. Did I crash on an atheist thread? Oh!
Click to expand...

To be very frank, while I know that some people here can be rude and blunt when it comes to religion, if you want to have as reasoned a discussion as possible, I really think you should avoid lines like the above.

You can't just assert that someone is wrong, you need to demonstrate it.
 
MikeAparicio said:
Thanks DancingDavid!

I would like to add some interesting aspects of the hidden philosophy behind Buddhism and most religions.
Predominantly symbolic or hidden in parables the central teaching circles around the consciousness level and ways to attain it!
Religions based on Christ teachings and bible chapters, mainly new testament, offer constant references to the teaching.
"John, let the dead bury their dead and follow me"... Actually refers to leaving the "sleeping ones" and come to the awakening!
Job in the old testament expresses at the end of his suffering: "What I mostly feared happened to me". Meaning after all his struggle he becomes aware of his inner fear and such act brings recovery, that is he gets free of Karma!.
Yoga teaches how to get into "meditation" as a higher state of mind. Western culture understand "meditation" as "thinking hard and insistently", while the actual Yoga meditative state is a TOTAL absence of thought process... "When Mind gets as calm as a lake water when there is NO wind, you will see... TRUTH!" Being Truth the actual happening, the current instant with all its immense eternity, a frame of the endless universal movie!

Remember: "Those who have ears, listen and those who have eyes, see..."
It is the same thing; you can only listen NOW and you can only see NOW...

El Koran has many of those mentions as well. "Listen the the voice of Alah" ( hear your inner talk ). You can be aware of your thoughts ONLY NOW.

Western critics call the full awareness state as "existentialism", censoring it as an ill mind state as "we should be reasoning everything and mind never stops". At the same time Mind is misunderstood as the intellect. In reality, intellect is only a resource of Mind. Mind is the mirror where it projects to Consciousness, intellect, senses, thoughts and imagination.

Rationalists believe Intellect is the center of mind, but actually it is the center of the false Ego, which steals the seat belonging to Mind which is part of the higher self.

The above explains why rationalism and metaphysics are almost irreconcilable.
Click to expand...

Interesting assertion, rather than explanation. What is your basis for the assertion?
 
Sorry!
Anyway I did not say anybody IS wrong....
I just said "You have the RIGHT to be wrong"...
Certainly it could be me!
But I apologize.... Sorry again!
 
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Rationalism is eminently or at least tries to be logical and objective. Metaphysical thought goes beyond logic into hyper-logic as it deals to explain the universe as an inter connected whole. Subjectively the Universe is a projection of the Universal Mind. For rationalists mind is just brain works while for metaphysics brain is just an instrument for Mind to control the body.

Can you find reconciliation ?
 
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