Broadband

[Vagabond]

I never said I never got any spyware. I don't consider that a hazard to my computer that needs to be protected from. I remove the spyware, with spybot search and destroy. BTW I ran spybot right after running the famous AOL spyware killer they brag about in all the commercials and it didn't find about ten that spybot found right after.

I did get one where it popped my CD/ROM open and forced me to delete all the cookies from internet explorer to get rid of it. This is what you are all protecting your computers from? I can tell if my computer has spyware on it or not. My hard drive will periodically fire up in order to do the deeds they do. No purpose to them otherwise. I hear that, I run spyware remover, never hear it again after for awhile. I get very little spyware in the firstplace because I am very selective in where I go. If I know I picked up spyware from a site I won't go there anymore. I don't get any from this site.

 

[scribble]

I did get one where it popped my CD/ROM open and forced me to delete all the cookies from internet explorer to get rid of it. This is what you are all protecting your computers from? I can tell if my computer has spyware on it or not. My hard drive will periodically fire up in order to do the deeds they do.

Please tell us more... I needed a good laugh today.

 

[voidx]

Well I'll certainly concede that one can greatly reduce the amount of spyware they get, or at least the more disruptive spyware, by being careful of where you go on the internet. However, the average computer user really isn't practical or knowledgeable enough to avoid such things. Hence many people just go where they please, and collect large amounts of spyware as a result. They then also do not have the expertise to properly remove the spyware, affecting the performance of their PC. A lot of spyware is indeed rather harmless, and in some cases doesn't even chew up a very large amount of system resources. However, some spyware does, and can become very disruptive when trying to browse using Internet Explorer or what have you.

So you have an inexperienced user, not being strict enough about where they go on the internet, getting spyware that affects the performance of their PC, and hence they need assistance to remove it, which usually costs them time and money if they don't have the know-how themselves. DSL/Cable routers and other such devices can help alleviate this somewhat, and aren't very expensive.

At the end of the day, most spyware is really more annoying than dangerous. However some certainly are very disruptive, making a real mess of the registry. At home, most people don't do backups, and so you really must make an effort to clean up the system, which can be very time-consuming and requires a certain level of technical knowledge. In a professional environment its simply unacceptable to waste that much time, cleaning up after users poor browsing habits. Re-imaging a PC is often more time-efficient, but it still takes time, and time is money.

It seems you've been careful and have avoided the more nasty forms of spyware, but that does not mean your experience trumps all others, or that you still do not have gaping security holes on your system. That they have not been taken advantage of does not change the fact that they are still there.

 

[grunion]

Since it's gone nonsensical.

One of those Mac OSs… "Oh never mind it's only taken us 20 years to get to anything like a decent operating system (and then we had to nick it) and never mind that nothing you bought more then a year ago will work, oh and we'll charge you another 70 quid for a "new" version with less new features then a service pack by any other decent OS vendor..." you mean one of those?



(Steps well back...)

Oh boy. Well, I certainly don't consider myself one of those, how do you put it, "superior Mac types." If you prefer grappling with XP over using OSX that does not mean you are stupid by any means. Indeed, I think one needs to know quite a bit more about computers (and be willing to spend quite a bit more time dealing with them, from installing to maintaining to waiting on hold with tech support) to use Windows over OSX. Though I have worked in IT for 15 years, I will be glad to claim ignorance about the arcane inner workings of Windows directories if it means I don't have to use a computer that depends upon my knowledge of them to allow me to be productive.

I see Mac bashing all over these forums and smile, "well, that's personal preference for ya." I do, however, find it amusing that a thread which was intended to help a user learn more about how to be productive on the Internet by leveraging the advent of Broadband in her world and that has been taken over by a discussion of Spyware, viruses, DoS attacks, and worms, all of which are virtually unknown on my platform, is so quick to jump on the tired old "go get a real computer" arguments.

I am not naive, and do indeed use anti-virus and firewall protection on my Mac, upgrade them regularly, and know how to use them. Though the possibility of a threat is presently near-nil, I am sure it will not be that way for much longer. But I can rest assured we have a long way to go before Mac users need to be obsessed with the topic as Windows users unfortunately need to be.

 

[Vagabond]

In a professional environment its simply unacceptable to waste that much time, cleaning up after users poor browsing habits. Re-imaging a PC is often more time-efficient, but it still takes time, and time is money.

It seems you've been careful and have avoided the more nasty forms of spyware, but that does not mean your experience trumps all others, or that you still do not have gaping security holes on your system. That they have not been taken advantage of does not change the fact that they are still there.<<<<<

For the most part I agree with what you said. But, you also have to weigh the amount of time you are spending installing the security, updating your virus protection once a month. The time spent getting the security to allow stuff you actually want that it is blocking as spyware or whatever. In a business setting you might be blocking legitimate business and never even know you aren't getting it.

If you have something valueable and or irreplaceable on your computer by all means use security. Particularly if it makes you sleep better at night. But, just moving anything you don't want compromised or lost to a zip disk at the end of the day is probably much easier, less time consuming and certainly is far more effective than whatever security you are using. The vast majority of people who are using security and virus protection are those who have no need for it, and aren't gaining ANY protection from it anyway. They are just falling for the drivel dished out by the companies making money off that crap. Since the chance anything like that will actually hit you is about zero. They appear to be doing what they say, when in actuality they are doing nothing.

It's like the freaking onstar commercials showing people stranded out in the middle of nowhere at 2 AM with their kids in the car? Who the hell is driving around someplace that no car is going to pass anytime soon at 2 AM with their kids in the car in the first place? Another example of using fear to make something utterly useless look necessary.

 

[voidx]

For the most part I agree with what you said. But, you also have to weigh the amount of time you are spending installing the security, updating your virus protection once a month.

If deployed intelligently very little time at all, and set to run automatically.

The time spent getting the security to allow stuff you actually want that it is blocking as spyware or whatever. In a business setting you might be blocking legitimate business and never even know you aren't getting it.

Again, this all depends on how organized your IT department is. Its sometimes all but impossible to manage because people don't understand, but security should be implemented as a cohesive policy. What programs and corresponding security access they require should be part of the deployment of security. And then modified over time as things change. This is in fact one of the things IT people actually get paid to do. And trust me, people still have phones, they still talk via email, if someone in an office wasn't getting something, they'd find out, and us IT folk would get an earful.

If you have something valueable and or irreplaceable on your computer by all means use security. Particularly if it makes you sleep better at night. But, just moving anything you don't want compromised or lost to a zip disk at the end of the day is probably much easier, less time consuming and certainly is far more effective than whatever security you are using.

Except that as time goes on peoples hard-drives get bigger, they hold more information, what people find important varies, from games to photo's and pictures to home finances, etc. If you have time to contiunally copy files to a zip disk everytime you modify them, then perhaps you have time to implement some simple, and one-time security measures.

The vast majority of people who are using security and virus protection are those who have no need for it, and aren't gaining ANY protection from it anyway.

I'll agree some people have overkill protection for the information they feel is important, however they do gain protection. To say they aren't gaining any is just patently false. Again, even if information isn't important persay, security measures can be worth it just so people aren't dealing with cleaning off their PC's all the time.

They are just falling for the drivel dished out by the companies making money off that crap. Since the chance anything like that will actually hit you is about zero. They appear to be doing what they say, when in actuality they are doing nothing.

Doing nothing? You'll have to back that up. And what do you mean by anything like "that"? Spyware? Mail worms? Pretty clearly these are not urban myths, companies do get hit by them all the time. If they didn't people wouldn't be able to cleverly mock Microsoft by typing it Micro$oft. Honestly, the threats are out there. What real harm they do can vary and can be overblown, but they still waste a lot of everyone's time by either clean up or yes, actual data loss. One way or the other you'll have to spend time either being overly careful where you go, or taking measures to protect yourself. Since these do actually do something, despite what you seem to imply, then their not necessarily a waste of time. Especially to professional companies.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Gosh, are you guys still bickering?

Seems to me there are two main pc user types- business and personal.
Business people have data to protect and time not to waste.
If their IT people keep the system up and do regular backups, they have achieved their main function.

The problem for those of us who are neither business users nor IT gurus is the sort of blind, random damage and general nuisance done by malware getting on our pc and making it work wrongly. It doesn't have to trash anything,steal anything or compromise anything important- it only has to spoil the fun of using the machine.
Look at Max's posts in this forum. He is paying good money to use a PC online. He does not want to spend hours learning how to fix the OS and spending more money and time on books and mags. He just wants it to WORK.
To achieve that simple aim, he is having to acquire skills he should not need. His best plan is to learn how to minimise future interference with minimal effort and expenditure, which is what he is trying to do.

Max knows more than he thinks he knows and he has some online help, or at least reassurance, from here.
Many people know much less and have no help at all. When their machine keeps crashing, or running slowly, they think it's their fault, or they go to PCWorld and get sold software they may not actually need and which may not fix their problems anyway.

These, the wholly clueless, are the folk who do need effective security. And, sadly , they are the least likely to have it in any form.
For some people, backups are enough. For others, it's not data loss that's the problem, but paying good money for something not working properly, because some halfwit vandalised it.

 

[richardm]

Oh boy.

Aah, we're just joshing

It's usually the case that whenever a thread turns to matters Spyware that someone will pop up and say "You can avoid these problems by using Linux/Macs/Colossus etc". I was quite surprised that nobody had, so thought I'd pre-empt it

Truth is that those machines are relatively ignored by the nasties. At the moment, anyway. Dunno if it'll change or not. (Probably Colossus will remain safe )

 

[richardm]

My computer has been hooked up to the internet for several years with no security at all and has never been compromised.

I never said I never got any spyware.

Hm. So you have had software installed on your PC without your knowledge, and don't consider that a compromise?

Since the chance anything like that will actually hit you is about zero

So, are these guys just making it up? (Warning: Link is a PDF document)

Volume: Daily intrusion attempts take place on an massive
scale - as many as 3 million scans in our logs on a
single day - and in a bursty fashion.

 

[Soapy Sam]

It's usually the case that whenever a thread turns to matters Spyware that someone will pop up and say "You can avoid these problems by using Linux/Macs/Colossus etc". I was quite surprised that nobody had, so thought I'd pre-empt it - RichardM".

Oh, aye. No argument. That's why my mother's broadband setup is running Fedora , behind a router modem. Far less nonsense for her to worry about. Her earlier WinXP dialup collected adware by the shoplot. There's a big market out there for local installers supplying people with a reliable, easy to use internet connection by similar methods.