Brits and handguns.

[Rolfe]

Why would they be any more nutty than other hunters? I'm not talking about using a compact pocket pistol, but a handgun designed for hunting out to ranges of 200 yards.

Because nobody here uses handguns of any sort for hunting. People who want to hunt get shotguns or rifles.

Someone showing up with a desire for a handgun "for hunting" would be instantly and accurately diagnosed as a gun nut who was angling for a reason to acquire a handgun for the usual gun nut reasons.

See Scepticemea's similar post above about his father-in-law.

Rolfe.

 

[Craig B]

Why would they be any more nutty than other hunters? I'm not talking about using a compact pocket pistol, but a handgun designed for hunting out to ranges of 200 yards.

Ranb

Can't really see that Billy the Kid stuff going down too well on the grouse moors, and I don't think it will catch on among the deer stalking fraternity. Above all, don't try it during a fox hunt! It wouldn't do at all.

 

[Ranb]

Because nobody here uses handguns of any sort for hunting. People who want to hunt get shotguns or rifles.

Someone showing up with a desire for a handgun "for hunting" would be instantly and accurately diagnosed as a gun nut who was angling for a reason to acquire a handgun for the usual gun nut reasons.

That is strange. So if someone wants to be different, then they are assumed to be a nut? Would a bow hunter be diagnosed as a nut also? What about air rifle users? I read that air rifles over 12 ft-lbs are classified as firearms. I'm not trying to be obtuse, it is just that as a long time participant in the US gun culture it is strange to me that owning a certain kind of gun makes a person a nut.

What are the "usual gun nut" reasons over there? Here in the USA I am a nut because I have guns that are too big, too small, too loud (muzzle brake), too quiet (moderator), too powerful (anything greater than 30-30) or too black (scary); take your pick. It is hard to keep track of the type of prejudices that are popular at the moment.

Ranb

 

[Marcus]

This is a little OT, sorry.

I'm making a box for a customer which will house a beautiful .45 auto he's giving to his daughter for her college graduation.

It's good to be a Texan.

 

[Ranb]

Can't really see that Billy the Kid stuff going down too well on the grouse moors, and I don't think it will catch on among the deer stalking fraternity. Above all, don't try it during a fox hunt! It wouldn't do at all.

I am referring to pistols like this one. http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/firearmDetails.php?ID=3223 Doesn't look like Billy the Kid stuff to me. While it is suitable for mammals, I wouldn't use it on birds even with shot shells. Hasn't fox hunting (with dogs) been illegal for several years in England?

Ranb

 

[The Don]

That is strange. So if someone wants to be different, then they are assumed to be a nut? Would a bow hunter be diagnosed as a nut also? What about air rifle users? I read that air rifles over 12 ft-lbs are classified as firearms. I'm not trying to be obtuse, it is just that as a long time participant in the US gun culture it is strange to me that owning a certain kind of gun makes a person a nut.

Part of the problem with this discussion is that the situation is hypothetical. Owning handguns is illegal in the UK. If however the law was framed in such a way as handguns is illegal but there was a modification to that which stated that there was an exemption if the gun was used for hunting then I think that an attempt to use a handgun for hunting would be viewed as a way to circumvent the "no handgun" rule given that riles and shotguns exist and are better suited to the task.

In the UK if you want to own a sporting gun then it's expected that it'll be a shotgun or rifle because it's the most appropriate tool for the job.

What are the "usual gun nut" reasons over there? Here in the USA I am a nut because I have guns that are too big, too small, too loud (muzzle brake), too quiet (moderator), too powerful (anything greater than 30-30) or too black (scary); take your pick. It is hard to keep track of the type of prejudices that are popular at the moment.

Ranb

Speaking for myself, it's anything that smacks of gun fetishism. If you have a gun of one (legal) type styled to look like another; so a .22 rifle styled to look like something the Terminator would use, eyebrows would be raised.

Again, only from my perspective, historically important weapons aside (which would probably be deactivated in any case), any weapon that you just want or need to own just to have it (as opposed to it being specifically a hunting tool) would have you classed as a gun nut.

(really, really expensive shotguns like Purdeys are probably exempt because people rich enough to own them are classified as "eccentric" instead of being nuts )

 

[Ranb]

Speaking for myself, it's anything that smacks of gun fetishism. If you have a gun of one (legal) type styled to look like another; so a .22 rifle styled to look like something the Terminator would use, eyebrows would be raised.

I sometimes see SKS's, 10/22's and M-1a's dressed up in fancy (silly?) plastic or fiber furniture at the local range. I call it style over substance instead of a fetish.

I extensively customized a Ruger 10/22 for my wife, but it involved modifying the stock for her small hands, installing a match grade barrel, scope, extended mag release, auto bolt release and attaching a silencer (noise offends her). All of this was practical.

Ranb

 

[The Don]

I sometimes see SKS's, 10/22's and M-1a's dressed up in fancy (silly?) plastic or fiber furniture at the local range. I call it style over substance instead of a fetish.

Being from a country where guns are comparatively rare and where they are mostly tools, I query the need someone to have a gun styled to look like a military or fantasy weapon.

Being from a country where we are (almost unanimously) happy to delegate responsibility for personal safety to the government, I cannot really see any reason to own a handgun at all unless:

• You love target shooting, in which case keep the gun at the shooting club
• You simply *want* that kind of gun (to love it and stroke it and because of the way it makes you feel)

Then again, I'm a guitar fetishist, I have far too many of them (8), and like to own them, stroke them and like the way they make me feel. IMO however there are fewer deliberate and accidental deaths through guitar use (but of course I would say that because, after all, I'm a guitar fetishist).

 

[Carnivore]

I live in the UK, have never owned a firearm nor felt any great need to do so. I enjoyed target shooting with rifles and airguns when younger, and if it were currently legal might be interested in buying a handgun for target shooting also. I realise that puts me in a small minority here. I would have no problem with submitting to background checks and police interviews with my family /friends/ coworkers (as happens in NZ) before being granted a licence and I would expect to have to provide secure storage for any firearms owned.

My native orneriness makes me dislike the current blanket ban on types of firearm. I feel that if an individual is deemed responsible enough to own firearms safely, the types don't really matter. In particular I feel it's very foolish that people who are trusted to use handguns in their employment are banned from owning them as private individuals.

It's not something I'm up in arms about though.

 

[Captain_Snort]

That is strange. Would a bow hunter be diagnosed as a nut also?

Definitely they would be diagnosed as a nut. Hunting with a bow is illegal here, and quite rightly so. I used to do a fair bit of field archery at targets, while not the most accurate, I was far from being the worst at loosing off a few. There is no way I could guarantee a quick painless kill of an animal. I also, like most archers over here, see compound bows as somehow cheating and ungentlemanly.

 

[brodski]

I'm not trying to be obtuse, it is just that as a long time participant in the US gun culture it is strange to me that owning a certain kind of gun makes a person a nut.

it's not so much that owning a certain type of gun makes someone a nut (leaving aside legal issues for a moment), it's just that taking a handgun to a grouse shoot would make it much harder to hit anything and would probably leave anything you did hit inedible- raising questions as to your motives. That's quite aside from the issues of class and snobbery tied up with shooting in the UK (England in particular), for instance in some circles using an over/under shotgun rather than a side by side shotgun is considered deeply vulgar.

What are the "usual gun nut" reasons over there? Here in the USA I am a nut because I have guns that are too big, too small, too loud (muzzle brake), too quiet (moderator), too powerful (anything greater than 30-30) or too black (scary); take your pick. It is hard to keep track of the type of prejudices that are popular at the moment.

Ranb

I'm sure I've mentioned to you before now that over here it can be a condition of a firearms certificate that a given weapon only be used with a suppressor/moderator/ "silencer" as they are considered a safety feature which protect the hearing of the shooter and those around the shooter- ideas about gun safety can vary a lot from culture to culture

 

[DDWW]

I sometimes see SKS's, 10/22's and M-1a's dressed up in fancy (silly?) plastic or fiber furniture at the local range. I call it style over substance instead of a fetish.

I extensively customized a Ruger 10/22 for my wife, but it involved modifying the stock for her small hands, installing a match grade barrel, scope, extended mag release, auto bolt release and attaching a silencer (noise offends her). All of this was practical.

Ranb

I added a holographic sight to my wife's 10-22 and a crimson trace to her S&W 686. Really improved her accuracy.

I do remember in WWII Brits were begging us Yanks for guns for personnel use. Thousands of handguns were sent over. Probably all destroyed by now.

So it goes.

 

[Marcus]

Definitely they would be diagnosed as a nut. Hunting with a bow is illegal here, and quite rightly so. I used to do a fair bit of field archery at targets, while not the most accurate, I was far from being the worst at loosing off a few. There is no way I could guarantee a quick painless kill of an animal. I also, like most archers over here, see compound bows as somehow cheating and ungentlemanly.

This surprises me. Bow hunting takes a lot of skill beyond just the archery skills, there is a lot involved in getting close enough. It's more sporting because there is more risk for the hunter and less for the animal. The odds aren't even, of course, but they are closer.

 

[zooterkin]

Being from a country where we are (almost unanimously) happy to delegate responsibility for personal safety to the government, I cannot really see any reason to own a handgun at all unless:

• You love target shooting, in which case keep the gun at the shooting club
  

I don't have a problem with guns being kept at home, provided they are under lock and key, in safes inspected by the police, and with the ammunition stored separately from the guns. The problem is that if you are shooting regularly, you may belong to more than one club, and be shooting at different ranges. It becomes impractical to keep the gun at "the" shooting club and go there each time you want to use it.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I can't express how happy I am that this thread turned from a discussion about a bad poll to a more general discussion on UK gun culture. Much more informative for me.

My ex-father in law ran a shoot (pheasant mostly). I think anyone bringing a handgun along to that would be given short shrift and possibly detained as a loony.

One minor issue with this may be the prevalence of snakes or other creatures that might actually attack a hunter from a short distance where I tend to hunt. I don't carry a side arm, but I hunt with people who do and I don't find it terribly strange. I've come close to stepping on more than one venomous snake, some longer than I am tall. I've also had to stop and look for cover when walking up on a group of wild hogs. A raccoon came closer to actually attacking me once, but I don't hear anyone claiming that as a reason to carry. At least not out loud.

Granted, a handgun isn't the only way to protect oneself in these scenarios, but it can be effective.

My understanding is that a hunter in the UK is less likely to fear attack from wildlife while hunting.

 

[zooterkin]

This surprises me. Bow hunting takes a lot of skill beyond just the archery skills, there is a lot involved in getting close enough. It's more sporting because there is more risk for the hunter and less for the animal. The odds aren't even, of course, but they are closer.

And the risk of leaving an injured animal roaming in pain?

 

[Professor Yaffle]

My understanding is that a hunter in the UK is less likely to fear attack from wildlife while hunting.

Except in Scotland.

But midges are hard to hit with any kind of gun.

 

[Dr. Keith]

This surprises me. Bow hunting takes a lot of skill beyond just the archery skills, there is a lot involved in getting close enough. It's more sporting because there is more risk for the hunter and less for the animal. The odds aren't even, of course, but they are closer.

Surprised me, too. Once I got bored with hunting by rifle I bought a bow and started working on my technique. I shot for several years, but never felt like I was good enough to hunt larger game. I shot some fish and maybe a nuisance armadillo or two, but never a deer. There was so much more discipline needed to hunt with a bow that it really changed the game for me. I sold my bow with a full set of hunting tips that had hardly been used.

 

[Dr. Keith]

But midges are hard to hit with any kind of gun.

Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Marcus]

And the risk of leaving an injured animal roaming in pain?

It's bad form to take a shot that doesn't result in a clean kill. It is your responsibility to get close enough to make this happen, it can be quite close if you are not using a compound bow.

If an animal is wounded, it is your responsibility, just as it is with gun hunters, to track him down and finish him off.