British peer offers bounty on Obama, Bush

[Puppycow]

British Peer Lord Ahmed suspended after 'offering £10m bounty on Barack Obama and George Bush'

Lord Ahmed, 53, who in 1998 became the first Muslim life peer, was reported to have made the comments at a conference in Haripur in Pakistan.

A Labour Party spokesman said: "We have suspended Lord Ahmed pending investigation. If these comments are accurate we utterly condemn these remarks which are totally unacceptable."

According to Pakistan's Express Tribune newspaper Lord Ahmed offered the bounty in response to a US action a week ago.

The US issued a $10 million reward for the capture of Pakistani militant leader Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, founder of the Lashkar-e-Taiba group, who it suspects of orchestrating the 2008 Mumbai attacks in which 166 people died as terrorists stormed hotels and a train station.

The British peer reportedly said: "'If the US can announce a reward of $10 million for the (capture) of Hafiz Saeed, I can announce a bounty of £10 million (for the capture of) President Obama and his predecessor, George Bush."

Lord Ahmed reportedly said he would arrange the bounty at any cost, even if he had to sell his own personal assets including his house.

He was said to have made the comments at a reception arranged in his honour by the business community of Haripur on Friday.

How representative of the views of British Muslims is Lord Ahmed? Lashkar-e-Taiba is the terrorist group responsible for the Mumbai attacks and other heinous terrorist acts. Another data point: recently Galloway was elected to parliament again. These events suggest to me that there is a lot of Anti-Americanism among British Muslims.

 

[Puppycow]

Lord Ahmed, who was born in Pakistan, became Baron Ahmed of Rotherham at the age of 40. In 2007 he was highly critical of the awarding of a knighthood to Salman Rushdie, claiming the author had "blood on his hands."

How does one become a Baron in Britain? What privileges does the title confer? Why is (was) he a lifetime peer?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

He claims he didn't do it:

“I did not offer a bounty. I said that there have been war crimes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan and those people who have got strong allegations against them – George W Bush and Tony Blair have been involved in illegal wars and should be brought to justice,” he said from Pakistan.
“If the Labour Party want to suspend me I will deal with the Labour Party. They will have to give me some evidence,” he added.

Linky.

It would be funny if it was a rhetorical flourish taken too far.

 

[geni]

How representative of the views of British Muslims is Lord Ahmed?

Hard to say

Lashkar-e-Taiba is the terrorist group responsible for the Mumbai attacks and other heinous terrorist acts.

Since Bombay is in India I think the term you are looking for is 4th generation warfare.

Thing is that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed is also a somewhat legitimate political figure (attacking India by any means necessary is a valid political position in Pakistan) so if you think that putting bounties on political figure's heads is legitimate just because they happen to lead an organisation that kills people then someone is going to suggest the logical next step.

Another data point: recently Galloway was elected to parliament again. These events suggest to me that there is a lot of Anti-Americanism among British Muslims.

Oh very much so. I understand they are somewhat upset by iraq and afganistan. Something to do with the level of islamic casulties.

 

[Puppycow]

Since Bombay is in India I think the term you are looking for is 4th generation warfare.

I think I'll stick with terrorism.

Thing is that Hafiz Muhammad Saeed is also a somewhat legitimate political figure (attacking India by any means necessary is a valid political position in Pakistan) so if you think that putting bounties on political figure's heads is legitimate just because they happen to lead an organisation that kills people then someone is going to suggest the logical next step.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashkar-e-Taiba

The organization is banned as a terrorist organization by India, Pakistan, the United States,[15] the United Kingdom,[7] the European Union,[16] Russia[17] and Australia.[18]

A 'legitimate' political figure of a banned organization (banned even in Pakistan)?

Oh very much so. I understand they are somewhat upset by iraq and afganistan. Something to do with the level of islamic casulties.

Britain was right beside the US in both these wars. The level of casualties is regrettable, but that's what inevitably happens when there is a ruthless violent insurgency willing to use "any means necessary".

 

[Puppycow]

A bit more on LeT:

LeT sees the issue of Kashmir as part of a wider global struggle.[21] The group has repeatedly claimed through its journals and websites that its main aim is to destroy the Indian republic and to annihilate Hinduism and Judaism. LeT has declared Hindus and Jews to be the "enemies of Islam", as well as India and Israel to be the "enemies of Pakistan".[22] In a pamphlet entitled "Why Are We Waging Jihad?" the group defined its agenda as the restoration of Islamic rule over all parts of India and declared India, Israel and the United States as existential enemies of Islam.[5][23] The LeT believes that violent jihad is the duty of all Muslims and must be waged until eight objectives are met: ending persecution against Muslims, establishing Islam as the dominant way of life in the world, forcing infidels to pay jizya, fighting for the weak and feeble against oppressors, exacting revenge for killed Muslims, punishing enemies for violating oaths and treaties, defending all Muslim states, and recapturing occupied Muslim territory.[24]

A "valid" political position in Pakistan?

 

[geni]

A bit more on LeT:



A "valid" political position in Pakistan?

Yup. Remember this is the India that just freed several hundred prisoners in northern Pakistan. Okey so it was claimed by Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan but everyone knows they are backed by India.

 

[geni]

I think I'll stick with terrorism.

So a term politicised to the point of uselessness? Well if thats your thing.

A 'legitimate' political figure of a banned organization (banned even in Pakistan)?

Doesn't mean as much as you might think. Remeber that banning is just to please the americans (not entirely true of course but that doesn't matter).

Its really best to avoid these kind of legalistic arguments otherwise you end up in the interesting position that Nelson Mandela and David Ben-Gurion among others weren't legitimate political figures.

Britain was right beside the US in both these wars.

The British goverment was. Most of the rest of the country not so much.

The level of casualties is regrettable,

That's cute. No really its like you are trying to copy the British empire without the political skill and the cold hard psychopathy to back it up.

but that's what inevitably happens when there is a ruthless violent insurgency willing to use "any means necessary".

No its what inevitably happens when you fight an optional war with poorly considered objectives and a lack of worthwhile local proxies.

 

[geni]

How does one become a Baron in Britain?

In this case I'd say be active within the labour partly when:

1)they are trying to rebalance the house of lords in their dirrection
2)You are a member of a community that the labour party thinks might vote for them.

What privileges does the title confer? Why is (was) he a lifetime peer?

You get to vote in the house of lords. Its lifetime because we don't give out hereditary peerages any more.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Ahmed is a bit of a numpty. Although it's comical that Awkward Ed suspended him for these comments pending an investigation but doesn't suspend Ken when he allegedly said 'Rich jews don't vote Labour'.

 

[Puppycow]

Its really best to avoid these kind of legalistic arguments otherwise you end up in the interesting position that Nelson Mandela and David Ben-Gurion among others weren't legitimate political figures.

Amazing. You are comparing LeT with Nelson Mandela. The argument is not merely a legalistic one. I refer you back to their "aim to destroy the Indian republic and to annihilate Hinduism and Judaism". If you think this is a valid political position, then there is nothing further to discuss. The only thing to do with people whose goal is to kill you is to kill them first.

Yup. Remember this is the India that just freed several hundred prisoners in northern Pakistan. Okey so it was claimed by Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan but everyone knows they are backed by India.

How do you know this?

 

[WildCat]

So a term politicised to the point of uselessness?

The term is quite fitting for a group that deliberately attacks civilians and others they know have nothing to do with their stupid little war.

 

[WildCat]

Ahmed is a bit of a numpty. Although it's comical that Awkward Ed suspended him for these comments pending an investigation but doesn't suspend Ken when he allegedly said 'Rich jews don't vote Labour'.

One of those statements is not like the other...

 

[Skepticemea]

Livingstone has never offered a bounty on anyone, as far as I know. He has referred to a Jew as akin to a "concentration camp guard" and told two Jewish property developers to go to Iran to see if they could "do better under the Ayatollahs."

I've a feeling Ken is "not a fan".

 

[Giz]

Ahmed is a bit of a numpty. Although it's comical that Awkward Ed suspended him for these comments pending an investigation but doesn't suspend Ken when he allegedly said 'Rich jews don't vote Labour'.

Isn't this the same guy that threatened to lay siege to the House of Lords with 10,000 Muslims if Geert Wilders was allowed to speak there?

If "numpty" = "believes in using force or intimidation rather than free debate to resolve issues", then yes, he is a numpty.

 

[Travis]

When the Secret Service gets done cleaning house I'm guessing they will have an interest in this.

 

[Skepticemea]

When the Secret Service gets done cleaning house I'm guessing they will have an interest in this.

Not sure we'll be so eager to ship over a peer of the realm for torture and cookies.

 

[Darat]

Just to update the actual story that kicked this off, looks like the claim he would place a bounty on their heads was a result of bad reporting. He apparently said he wanted to see Bush and Blair brought in front of the ICC and he would sell his house if that was necessary to make it happen.

 

[Skepticemea]

Just to update the actual story that kicked this off, looks like the claim he would place a bounty on their heads was a result of bad reporting. He apparently said he wanted to see Bush and Blair brought in front of the ICC and he would sell his house if that was necessary to make it happen.

US needs to present evidence of actual criminality to demand extradition? News to me. And Mr Tappin.

But I digress.

 

[Travis]

Not sure we'll be so eager to ship over a peer of the realm for torture and cookies.

I don't recall that the Secret Service goes into that.