British Chiropractic Association v Simon Singh

Blue Wode said:
Richard Brown, Vice President of the British Chiropractic Association has his say:
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For clarity, is the Richard Brown, quoted by Blue Wode, the same as the Richard Brown cited in zeno's letter?

"Richard Brown (27)
Anna Hawrot (2868)
Hardwicke & Quedgeley Chiropractic
Clinic
http://www.hqcc.co.uk colic, back pain, frozen shoulder, tennis elbow, tendonitis, hip bursitis, knee injuries, ankle strains and sprains"
 
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
For clarity, is the Richard Brown, quoted by Blue Wode, the same as the Richard Brown cited in zeno's letter?

"Richard Brown (27)
Anna Hawrot (2868)
Hardwicke & Quedgeley Chiropractic
Clinic
http://www.hqcc.co.uk colic, back pain, frozen shoulder, tennis elbow, tendonitis, hip bursitis, knee injuries, ankle strains and sprains"
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It's surely a common name, so we'd best not jump to conclusions - but given how low his registration number is, one figures it's likely the two are the same person.
 
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
For clarity, is the Richard Brown, quoted by Blue Wode, the same as the Richard Brown cited in zeno's letter?

"Richard Brown (27)
Anna Hawrot (2868)
Hardwicke & Quedgeley Chiropractic
Clinic
http://www.hqcc.co.uk colic, back pain, frozen shoulder, tennis elbow, tendonitis, hip bursitis, knee injuries, ankle strains and sprains"
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Certainly looks like it is. If you click through the Profiles on their web-site:

"Active within the profession, Richard is the vice president of the British Chiropractic Association and was the chairman of its professional standards committee between 2001 and 2007..."
 
volatile said:
Zeno's letter has had a really, really profound effect, and the chiropractors are actually terrified: http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2009/06/chiropractors-told-to-take-down-their.html
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MCA said:
5. Be wary of ‘mystery shopper’ phone calls and ‘drop ins’ to your practice, especially if they start asking about your care of children, or whiplash, or your evidence base for practice.
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Sounds familiar. Remember the advice the SoH issued to its members a couple of years ago?

"The Society is urging its members to be cautious when responding to phone calls and e-mails following reports of enquirers appearing to be trying to catch out homeopaths"
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Source: DC’s Improbable Science.
 
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
For clarity, is the Richard Brown, quoted by Blue Wode, the same as the Richard Brown cited in zeno's letter?

"Richard Brown (27)
Anna Hawrot (2868)
Hardwicke & Quedgeley Chiropractic
Clinic
http://www.hqcc.co.uk colic, back pain, frozen shoulder, tennis elbow, tendonitis, hip bursitis, knee injuries, ankle strains and sprains"
Click to expand...


Yes, it's him. Well spotted. This is lifted from the GCC's website:
Chiropractor Search Results
You searched for: Surname: Brown
Click here to start a new search
Click here for a printer friendly version

Results of search on 10 Jun 2009 at 13:31:42
The details shown are valid at the date & time of the search only
Information last updated on 09/06/09 17:05

1 to 2 of 2

Richard Brown
Reg. no: 00027
Date of Registration: 05/07/1999
Registration Status: Registered - Practising
Sex: M
Hardwick and Quedgely Chiropractic Clinic
62 Westbourne Drive
Hardwicke
Gloucester
Gloucestershire
GL2 4RU
Tel: 01452 883232


Richard Brown
Reg. no: 00027
Date of Registration: 05/07/1999
Registration Status: Registered - Practising
Sex: M
The Lansdown Clinic
1 High Street
Stroud
Gloucestershire
GL5 1AU
Tel: 01453 755799
1 to 2 of 2

http://www.gcc-uk.org/find_chiro.cfm
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ETA. There's no other 'Richard Brown' registered with the GCC.
 
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The following is lifted from a post made to a thread at the Bad Science forum today at 12.50pm by pv re Anglo European College of Chiropractic's research efforts (live links on original post):
Here's their pre-treatment questionnaire.
And here's their post-treatment questionnaire.

As I said, consumer questionnaires.

This document is interesting. In it, on page 17 of the pdf (page 25 of the publication), in what they describe as a "Comparison of the Short-term Effects of Two Chiropractic Techniques in the Treatment of Infant Colic: a Singleblinded, Randomised Trial", they state quite categorically that:

There are no proven treatments for infant colic...

Methinks it rather undermines their case in court, even in the Eady sense.

What's the chiropractic definition of "perjury"?

And the study itself is laughable, comparing two chiropractic techniques and deciding there was no difference between them. This for them represents serious research! What wilfully deluded idiots!

http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8946&p=190375#p190375
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Blue Wode said:
The following is lifted from a post made to a thread at the Bad Science forum today at 12.50pm by pv re Anglo European College of Chiropractic's research efforts (live links on original post):
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:jaw-dropp

Errrm. Wow. Just... wow. I hope someone will pass this on to the Singh team quickly and urgently.

It's still not the BCA, but to have two separate chiropractic bodies on the same day shown to be promoting bogus treatments even in the Eady sense is just amazing.
 
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Mojo said:
I recognise his photo on the Pulse website - he was in court for the hearing before Eady on 7th May.
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Presumably he was instrumental in starting the lawsuit in the first place?
 
I'm mobile again so viewing the web is a bit slow, so can I ask is Richard Brown's website still up and making its claims?
 
Badly Shaved Monkey said:
I'm mobile again so viewing the web is a bit slow, so can I ask is Richard Brown's website still up and making its claims?
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http://www.hqcc.co.uk/ (flash, ug) claims 'babies with colic often respond well to chiropractic treatment' That's about the only claim made there, btw.

ETA: Wow, he even has an emergency chiropractic hot line!
 
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nathan said:
ETA: Wow, he even has an emergency chiropractic hot line!
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"Thank you for phoning BackCrack 24/7. If you think you have been libelled by a sceptic, Press 1. If you are having an asthma attack, better call 999 and don't tell anyone I've been treating you. You ain't seen me. Right? If you have found reliable evidence for the efficacy of chiropractic, please bring it to my house as soon as possible. If you have found a subuxation, please make a careful record of it, none has ever been seen in captivity. If you are a member of the McTimoney Chiropractic Association, I have only one thing to say, "SPLITTERS!""
 
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The first time I came across the name "McTimoney", I thought it was a deliberate joke.

Mak-the-money, OK

(Indeed, the Dunlops have been Mackintyres for many years now....)

Rolfe.
 
The Internet Wayback Machine means you can run but not hide:

http://www.archive.org/index.php

I just tried a couple of uk chiro sites mentioned in the course of this thread and get a "Not Working Now. Come Back Later." message. Not sure what I read into that. :boggled:
 
nathan said:
ETA: Wow, he even has an emergency chiropractic hot line!
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It is not so surprising. Remember that there is a non-woo component to chiropractic.

I myself have many years ago tried a call to an emergency chiropractor on a saturday, because I had got pains in my neck so severe that it felt as if the head was falling off. I was going on holiday the next day, and I arrived at the clinic in a taxi and had walk with very small steps while holding my head. The chiropractor did the neck manipulation that I now know is so dangerous, and a few minutes afterwards I was able to walk more or less normally, and take the train home. On the Sunday, I had a second treatment, and I was able to enjoy holiday without any complications at all.

Needless to say, this anecdotal story of mine convinced me that chiropractic actually works, at least for that kind of pain. I have never heard a woo notion from any chiropractor in Denmark, although I have heard of other people who have had their child treated for colic (rather unsuccessfully if you ask me). Obviously, not all chiropractors here are like the few I have met.

When I started reading about chiropractors on this forum, I discussed it once with the chiropractor that I visited regularly at the time, and he told me that the Danish chiropractors had thought of changing their names in order to dissociate themselves from the wooish American cousins. However, the brand name was too strong, and they had not dared to make the move.

Because scientific evidence also show that chiropractic works for some ailments, I have not hesitated to visit a chiropractor that I trust, but the building evidence of the danger involved does make me think twice if I should need it again.
 
steenkh said:
It is not so surprising. Remember that there is a non-woo component to chiropractic.
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Not really. At best it seems to be is about as effective as less risky procedures. Given that the vast majority of its practitioners will try to treat conditions that it is known it will not work with, it is very safely classed as woo.
 
Dragon said:
Priceless indeed - we seem to be witnessing a new variation of the Streisand effectWP, perhaps we should call it the Singh Effect.
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You could say they are getting their fingers well and truly Singh'd, har har. I haven't had such gleeful fun since PZ got kicked out of expelled.
 
I've just been reading posts on the http://chiropracticlive.com website and it seems British chiropractors are not a happy bunch; they fight and contradict themselves even more than people do on JREF. But an interesting thing was mentioned: the GCC (General Chiropractic Council), the statutory regulatory body with whom Zeno lodged his wonderful complaint, is also required to be self-funding; and it gets its funding from registration fees from chiropractors. So what do you think the odds are of the GCC ever saying 'Oh, these naughty chiropractors, let's shut them down'?
 
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