Brexit: the referendum

truethat said:
No worries. People always think I'm a guy.
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I used to get that. Forum name change and pink avatar and sort of feminine custom title fixed it.

It's better this way coz now I can be called bitchy and neurotic.

(Actually I never have been called either here. True that)
 
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truethat said:
My line of thinking is England is in trouble. A lot of trouble. Basically you've got a lot of "UKIP" supporters very similar to Trump supporters in the US. You could kind of equate it this way: My gay friends in the US are saying that essentially you have to just wait for all the old people to die off because people are moving forward. Once the old thinkers die off the new more educated, more open minded people will take over and move forward in progress.

If you are outnumbered to the point that you have Trump supporters winning this election in the US. And the you know he will have control for the next 8 years and that by the time he gets out of office the "adults in society" are going to be illiterates with junk college degrees and no critical thinking skills how is the country going to look?

That's a huge problem. It's a double edged problem. There's no redeeming it. You wouldn't be able to bring it back.

I do admit that my "I told ya so" is annoying. But I've been pointing this out for the last 8 years or so and it's not been noticed. People have basically suggested that I see English people that way BECAUSE I am a dumb American who doesn't understand that they are more sophisticated in England.

Well no, it's been shocking to me. The illiteracy is bizarre. However almost every English person I've ever spoken to has told me that English people are better educated than people in the United States.

So why that comparison bugs me, is realizing how totally blind to this people were.

Hope I answered your question.

Oh and one more point. Illiteracy doesn't occur in a vacuum. The fact that teenagers are so illiterate is a reflection of the kind of homes and parents they have as well. It's socioeconomic background. You don't get large numbers of illiterate teenagers without large numbers of illiterate parents. And they are the ones who voted for the exit.
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The underlined: I actually had 2 different British college professors (one a Brummie, one a Scot) tell me the opposite. I realize that they are the only two British people I've known in real-life in more than passing. But my sum total experience with Brits seems to be the exact opposite of yours. Very open-minded (the Scot did his damned best to like collegiate football and country music of all things), and prone to understate their personal and countries' accomplishments.

And just a general reply:

The literacy rate in the UK may be poor compared to other OECD nations, but it is still > 99% according to UNESCO. I think you are overstating the problem.

I completely disagree that people in the US or the UK are graduating from college without critical thinking skills. Even your linked articles don't seem to suggest that; rather they are lacking in technical skills. College grads in the US under 40 overwhelmingly see through Trumps's BS for example.
 
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truethat said:
Um you need to read your data better.
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You need to answer the point I made, which is that you said our kids were illiterate and stupid, and that the reason we voted to leave the EU was because of our failing education system........yet the recent product of that education system overwhelmingly voted to remain. This isn't difficult.........you just shot yourself in the foot.


truethat said:
The entire infrastruction is collapsing because you are outnumbered
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Which part of our infrastructure is collapsing? Individual, named parts of it please? And by whom are we outnumbered?


truethat said:
and those 'junk degree idiots" do not have the skills to fix the problem. Period the end. The future.
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truethat said:
..........you totally IGNORED the fact that your own people were even worse and your country is getting destroyed because of it.
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Asserted without evidence, and childishly wrong. Have you ever left the USA? Have you any evidence to support a charge that our country is being destroyed?

If I'd just had a 3 months enforced break from the forum, I'd perhaps wander back in with a little caution.
 
truethat said:
.........The Brexit vote undeniably shows that the people in England honestly think they can maintain their importance in the world on their own.
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I note again that logic seems to be a problem for you.

Voting to leave the EU does not in any way imply that "people in England (you're slow to learn the difference between England and Britain, aren't you?........very slow) think they can maintain their importance in the world". No, it does not. Not for a second. It may be possible to interpret the results as suggesting that people are less interested in Britain's place in the world than any one of dozens of other factors in their decision. As always, you should be careful about projecting your obsessions onto those with whom you debate.
 
lobosrul said:
The underlined: I actually had 2 different British college professors (one a Brummie, one a Scot) tell me the opposite. I realize that they are the only two British people I've known in real-life in more than passing. But my sum total experience with Brits seems to be the exact opposite of yours. Very open-minded (the Scot did his damned best to like collegiate football and country music of all things), and prone to understate their personal and countries' accomplishments.

And just a general reply:

The literacy rate in the UK may be poor compared to other OECD nations, but it is still > 99% according to UNESCO. I think you are overstating the problem.

I completely disagree that people in the US or the UK are graduating from college without critical thinking skills. Even your linked articles don't seem to suggest that; rather they are lacking in technical skills. College grads in the US under 40 overwhelmingly see through Trumps's BS for example.
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You will note that I have specifically referred to English people. Not Brits. And as I pointed out before, it's the ones who insist on being called English not British. Scots don't act like this at all. They are savvy intelligent people.


I could continue discussing this with you and would be happy to PM you about it. But a certain poster in the thread is doing their best to goad me into something they can report. Since off topic is the go to penalty these days, I'll tip my hat at this conversation again.

In my opinion, as I have stated, the Brexit vote is predictable and very telling about the state of England.


Francesca R said:
I just had a 6 month unenforced voluntary break until last Friday.

It's like riding a bike. Really.
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:thumbsup::D So true.
 
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truethat said:
We'll see. Like I said, I may have to eat crow but I think it's exaggerated in the US and it's not in England. I think most Americans are horrified by Trump. But who knows, maybe on election day we'll get a shock as well. But it is true that America leads the world culturally. Wish others would make more relevant modern contributions instead of expecting to be applauded for the past.
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As long as "the world" you are referring to is the same one as used in "the World series" of the rounders game you seem to like then you are probably right. But if it is used in the more usual way i.e. the entire world you are very wrong.
 
Darat said:
As long as "the world" you are referring to is the same one as used in "the World series" of the rounders game you seem to like then you are probably right. But if it is used in the more usual way i.e. the entire world you are very wrong.
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Hey now Canada can win the World Series too ya know. ;)

Even in the United States, USA culture dominates far, far less than it used to, in my experience.
 
truethat said:
You will note that I have specifically referred to English people. Not Brits. ......Scots don't act like this at all. They are savvy intelligent people.........
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Please state your evidence that the Scots are more intelligent than the English. I can't think of a metric by which savvieness could be measured, so I'll assume you just pulled that out of your backside (as indeed you did with the "intelligent" part of the quote, but I'll give you the chance to wipe the poo off that and present your sources).
 
truethat said:
You will note that I have specifically referred to English people. Not Brits. And as I pointed out before, it's the ones who insist on being called English not British. Scots don't act like this at all. They are savvy intelligent people.
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50% of the people I was referencing are English. A Brummie is someone from Birmingham.
 
Interestingly the French now want English out of the EU as well. I hadn't thought of it before but it kind of makes sense. How interesting will it be to see this shift in the language of the EU. If French became the official language it would certainly change the way kids in the US take languages in high school. Right now, many people take Spanish because it seems more practical.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...h-language-brexit_us_576ede1fe4b0dbb1bbbac730


Is the United Kingdom’s exit from the European Union going to deal a fatal blow to the language of Shakespeare on the continent? English, one of the 24 official languages of the EU, is very much spoken in Brussels and in the European Parliament in Strasbourg. But according to certain leading French politicians, its status after the Brexit should be questioned.

On Friday morning, the mayor of the southern French town of Béziers, Robert Ménard — a man with close ties to the National Front — reckoned that English no longer had “any legitimacy” in Brussels.
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MikeG said:
No, for you to prove your point via my comment you would have to show that I am poorly educated. Do you really want to go along that path? You'll lose.
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MikeG said:
Before you make yourself look even more ridiculous, do yourself a favour. Do some research. You'll maybe discover that we have some of the highest university fees in the world, and those are paid for by the students, not the state.

I've just had a couple of kids get through the education system, and guess what? They're not illiterate. One is a teacher, and one is doing a PhD in Biology. They're both multi-lingual (how's your Latin, by the way?). Please tell me again how our kids are useless, and how superior the USA is. We all find it so amusing.
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truethat said:
The pharma industry is ONE area that I would say is really strong in England and Ireland. But again, it's not innovative.

This really isn't about "chest thumping" it's about reality. For the last few decades we've been watching as Europe turns and drags the US over the coals for everything but oddly can't seem to get their own countries together.

I once made the suggestion of looking at a Pacific Centric map instead of a Eurocentric Map. It's quite fascinating when you do. Because you see where the world innovations are coming from are all areas around the Pacific and Europe is off to the side with Africa which is also struggling.

But this "standing on reputation of history" is the opposite of innovation. So while the US has been building and innovating itself into a position of World Power in about 200 years. Europe is still standing around thinking it's great because it USED to do stuff that was important.

Germany seems to have figured out how to move forward. But this vote in Brexit is a clear example of what English laziness, arrogance and illiteracy have created. And I've been predicting it for years. So I'm sorry if it's coming across "mean." I thought all was far in politics. People seem to rip Americans apart in political forums. Are we supposed to tip toe in here because people can't handle the truth?

Here's a Pacific Centric Map China, Japan, India, Malaysia The United States, etc THOSE are the countries that are innovating.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/NewZealandEmbassies-PacificCentric.png
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Before you shout about how ignorant people are, you might want to consider this from a different thread:

truethat said:
What you will see is what is reflected in what is going on in the world today. The countries around the Pacific Ocean are the ones constantly in the news. America, China, Japan, India, Pakistan, the Middle East.
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truethat said:
Interestingly the French now want English out of the EU as well. I hadn't thought of it before but it kind of makes sense. How interesting will it be to see this shift in the language of the EU. If French became the official language it would certainly change the way kids in the US take languages in high school. Right now, many people take Spanish because it seems more practical.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...h-language-brexit_us_576ede1fe4b0dbb1bbbac730
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French has long been a worldwide Lingua Franca; English superseded it at some point in the 20th century though. I don't see what's controversial about an organization not using a language that none of their members use.
 
lobosrul said:
French has long been a worldwide Lingua Franca; English superseded it at some point in the 20th century though. I don't see what's controversial about an organization not using a language that none of their members use.
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Neither do I. I think it would be fascinating to watch the transition.


Archie Gemmill Goal said:
She might be daft. But she's no stupid.
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:cool::D:cool:
 
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