Brexit: the referendum

I am not sure I'd call a 53/47 result "robust"


I'd argue that statistically-speaking, it's very robust, especially in a turnout north of 80%. I will confidently predict that if the outcome really is something like 53/47 (or even as far as perhaps 51.5/48.5) for Remain, all sides will accept it as a categorical "victory" for Remain, and there will be no accusations of illegitimacy or questionable constitutional validity etc.



True, which makes you wonder how one can be confident in Betting exchanges/forex markets/polling companies and so on.


Because all of those indicators involve people staking real money (in some cases, billions of pounds), and thus taking a genuine risk/return interest in how they express their opinion*. Polling companies can never hope to introduce that sort of factor, and we already know very well that phoning people or stopping them in the street produces unreliable outcomes.



If that's true then Scotland might have larger problems to contend with in the short term ;)


Haha yes. I already did a "mea culpa" for that one. It genuinely was an autocorrect error :p



* As a form of corollary, I recall a very clever technique employed by the UK's Air Accidents Investigation Branch following the Manchester runway fire in (I think) 1985. The aircraft's engine caught fire on the runway, and the Captain pulled off and shut everything off, but by that time the fire (fanned by a good wind) had penetrated the cabin, which was rapidly filling with toxic smoke. Every passenger on the aircraft survived up to the evacuation command, but there was a manic crush and panic to get out as the smoke intensified, and as a result something close to half the passengers died (most through smoke inhalation, though IIRC some died of crush injuries).

Anyway......... the AAIB wanted to try to model passenger behaviour when there's a need for rapid evacuation of an aircraft cabin. They filled an aircraft (737) with passengers and said something like "when we say "evacuate", we want you all to leave the cabin via the front doors as fast as you can". But everything was very orderly and "after you" and so on.

So the AAIB realised that in order to even come close to modelling the situation accurately, they would have to generate an incentive for people to get off the aircraft as fast as they possibly could. Obviously they couldn't do anything that might place anyone in jeopardy (eg lighting a fire at the back fof the cabin......), so they came up with the clever substitute of filling the test aircraft with a new set of volunteers, and then offering a significant cash reward for (something like) the first 30 people to exit, and a smaller cash reward for (something like) the next 60 to exit.

Once these real incentives were in place, the investigators were amazed to find what a difference it made. All of a sudden, people really were almost standing on others to try to get out first, and there was aggression and panic that at least went some way to simulating what might have happened in a real instance of toxic smoke filling up the cabin.
 
BTW, it looks like the result in Sunderland might have been further skewed by Nissan (a massive local employer) issuing a letter to all its employees "suggesting" that they vote "Remain" (it also appears that Nissan may have sent out this letter in response to a request from the "Remain" camp, and possibly directly from Cameron). It turned out that the thousands of Nissan's Sunderland-based employees didn't look too kindly upon their employer trying to influence how they voted, and that as a result there was a significant backlash of "Leave" voting.
 
Be interested to hear a RUK opinion but there's been a couple of Scottish voices on BBC to me talking sense and I think I'd vote for them.
 
Semi serious note I hope Scotland welcomes everyone regardless. Cant speak for the whole country but hate the idea of excluding anyone.


You can welcome the world when/if you host the World Cup or European Championships. Plus you'll be guaranteed Scottish qualification for the group stages ;)
 
You can welcome the world when/if you host the World Cup or European Championships. Plus you'll be guaranteed Scottish qualification for the group stages ;)

Not sure if you're being facetious or whatever but seriously would like to tell the world that they are welcome here.
 
I'd argue that statistically-speaking, it's very robust, especially in a turnout north of 80%.

So far it's looking like turnout is going to be ~67% Nationwide.

Because all of those indicators involve people staking real money (in some cases, billions of pounds), and thus taking a genuine risk/return interest in how they express their opinion*.

They might be more motivated, but I would still question the accuracy of the information they base their actions on.

My thoughts pre the first few results coming in were that Remain would ultimately win 60/40. It's looking much closer now than I expected.

Which is reflected in the volatility of the GBP:USD forex market right now. There are traders making a killing right now with this volatility, tho equally for every winner there's also a loser on the other side. If both parties are backing opposite sides, both staking similar amounts, both presumably similarly motivated, then which one is right, and based on what info?
 
Hartlepool is interesting.

As much as I love TheDimbleby I think this coverage is suffering from lacklustre-itus.
A topic for another debate, but there is a lack if preparedness to convey the results.

They are using the General Election/UsualConstituency format.
This doesn't work.
 
Not sure if you're being facetious or whatever but seriously would like to tell the world that they are welcome here.


I was being facetious - sorry! But more seriously, while I subscribe to your point of view in principle, it's a heck of a lot easier (and better) to run a country on the basis of some level of control of immigration. And of course those in need of genuine asylum should always be welcomed with no strings whatsoever.

When air conditioning for homes and vehicles became economically viable in US the 1950s and 60s, there were huge population migration shifts to places such as Southern California, Arizona and Florida - places that up to that point were sparsely inhabited and extremely rural. There were very serious problems with infrastructure in all of those areas which persisted even into the 1980s. Florida, for example, went from a population of some 1.9 million in 1990 to nearly 20 million today. Florida is a far richer and more prosperous state as a result, and the infrastructure now meets and matches the needs of its inhabitants, with further (predictable) growth factored in. But the massive (and wholly uncontrolled and uncontrollable) population influx over the post-war years caused huge issues at the time.

I suppose I'm drifting off-topic here. Anyhow, I agree with you that immigration is in general and in principle a very good thing - but I'd also argue that it can cause significant short-term problems if it's uncontrolled and uncontrollable.
 
I was being facetious - sorry! But more seriously, while I subscribe to your point of view in principle, it's a heck of a lot easier (and better) to run a country on the basis of some level of control of immigration. And of course those in need of genuine asylum should always be welcomed with no strings whatsoever.

When air conditioning for homes and vehicles became economically viable in US the 1950s and 60s, there were huge population migration shifts to places such as Southern California, Arizona and Florida - places that up to that point were sparsely inhabited and extremely rural. There were very serious problems with infrastructure in all of those areas which persisted even into the 1980s. Florida, for example, went from a population of some 1.9 million in 1990 to nearly 20 million today. Florida is a far richer and more prosperous state as a result, and the infrastructure now meets and matches the needs of its inhabitants, with further (predictable) growth factored in. But the massive (and wholly uncontrolled and uncontrollable) population influx over the post-war years caused huge issues at the time.

I suppose I'm drifting off-topic here. Anyhow, I agree with you that immigration is in general and in principle a very good thing - but I'd also argue that it can cause significant short-term problems if it's uncontrolled and uncontrollable.

And i'd like to repeat my message that people are welcome here. Whatever.
 
It's the total vote that decides the issue, isn't it? If so, what's the big deal with individual districts voting in or out? Seems a bit pointless.
 
depends



At the minute it seems like its Scotland vs the Rest. That matters.


The breakdowns are interesting because, they're interesting.

How else would you report the figures live?

The "areas" give an indication only.
Percentages.

We have yet to see the results from the big "areas".

ETA: as of now, trend/percentage is a Leave.
 
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The breakdowns are interesting because, they're interesting.

How else would you report the figures live?

The "areas" give an indication only.
Percentages.

We have yet to see the results from the big "areas".

ETA: as of now, trend/percentage is a Leave.

Its early days but I'm looking for something that contradicts the story.

If that's how it ends up its significant.
 
This whole vote is looking *really* close.

I wonder if it might be that the pollsters/bettors/traders that are mostly London based might have got this wrong somewhat.

It's looking like London will vote Remain by a reasonable majority. Might that have coloured their forecasts?

At the start of the night Farage was tipping Remain. Sterling rose sharply based on traders expectations, and now things are looking different.

~70% turnout so far and it's heading toward a very, very close result.
 
Labour is calling a Leave victory, as are the financial markets.

FTSE and GBP down 5% right now.

Bumpy ride ahead, I'm sad to say to the Brits among us. Possibly a wider contagion as well.

(Japan is ignoring you; the Nikkei is up a couple of points. Everywhere else savaged.)
 
* might not be official Labour comment, apparently.

The market results are real, though.

If your balls and bank balance were big enough and you thought Remain wins there's lots of money to be made if you were right.
 

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