Brexit: the referendum
- Thread starter MikeG
- Start date
Child benefits paid by UK taxpayers will be increased for those whose children live in countries with a higher standard of living than the UK - so Luxembourg and Germany I suppose - maybe some others too.
And I don't think it applies immediately (or is that some other benefits?) It's going to be introduced gradually over a few years and not applied to those children already receiving benefits for another four years.
As the amounts paid are fairly small in the big scheme of things, the extra administration of the complicated new rules will likely eat up any potential savings.
Really, like most of the other 'concessions' obtained by Cameron, it's just a political fig leaf to cover up the fact that he was always going to campaign to remain in the EU whatever happened.
And I don't think it applies immediately (or is that some other benefits?) It's going to be introduced gradually over a few years and not applied to those children already receiving benefits for another four years.
As the amounts paid are fairly small in the big scheme of things, the extra administration of the complicated new rules will likely eat up any potential savings.
Really, like most of the other 'concessions' obtained by Cameron, it's just a political fig leaf to cover up the fact that he was always going to campaign to remain in the EU whatever happened.
It's nice to see Boris squirm - there is no "safe" position for him to take so for once he's going to have to take a stand that may affect his ambitions.
The evidence for this sort of assertion is always the same: there hasn't been a WW3, has there? Well, there you are then.
ComfySlippers
Banned
Re: child Benefits.
As I understand it the new rules affect new claims immediately, and all current claims by 2020.
I'd not normally comment, even though I think the present situation is very wrong, but as someone who's just been thrown into the mad world of the DWP I feel justified in pointing out the shambles and unfairness of it all based on personal experience.
I don't believe whatsoever that the new rules will cost more to implement than the present system. The present system, (which was new as of a few years ago), is an absolute joke implemented by, and operated by imbeciles.
It might not seem big in the scheme of things but I can assure anyone that entering your third month of literally not having a single penny to your name, and all the fun that entails, whilst battling to get what a lifetime of paying into the system should entitle you to, when people overseas who have never lived here or contributed get free money..... Is a tad annoying to say the least.
/RantOFF
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As I understand it the new rules affect new claims immediately, and all current claims by 2020.
I'd not normally comment, even though I think the present situation is very wrong, but as someone who's just been thrown into the mad world of the DWP I feel justified in pointing out the shambles and unfairness of it all based on personal experience.
I don't believe whatsoever that the new rules will cost more to implement than the present system. The present system, (which was new as of a few years ago), is an absolute joke implemented by, and operated by imbeciles.
It might not seem big in the scheme of things but I can assure anyone that entering your third month of literally not having a single penny to your name, and all the fun that entails, whilst battling to get what a lifetime of paying into the system should entitle you to, when people overseas who have never lived here or contributed get free money..... Is a tad annoying to say the least.
/RantOFF
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Godzillia hasn't invaded mainland Europe either, there are so many things the EU can be credited for preventing!
You do realise that the overseas folk predominantly get in work benefits and that they have to go through the same processes as you do/did and in fact have additional processes to go through?
As Mike mentioned above, this child benefit thing is a storm in a very small teacup. But Cameron has made a hullabaloo about it so that he can be seen to have been batting for Britain.
The EU's reciprocal child benefit system is quite complex, but this summarises it as best I can tell:
Priority rules
- Generally, the primary country responsible for providing the benefits is the country where your family's right is based on work (you or your spouse are employed or self-employed)
- If your right is based on work (employment or self-employment) in both countries, the country where your children live is responsible if one of the parents works there. Otherwise it will be the country where the highest benefits are paid.
- If your right is based on a pension in both countries, the country where your children live is responsible if this country pays one of the pensions. Otherwise it will be the country where you were insured or have resided the longest.
- If your right is based on residence in both countries, the country where your children live is primarily responsible.
Link
The EU's reciprocal child benefit system is quite complex, but this summarises it as best I can tell:
Priority rules
- Generally, the primary country responsible for providing the benefits is the country where your family's right is based on work (you or your spouse are employed or self-employed)
- If your right is based on work (employment or self-employment) in both countries, the country where your children live is responsible if one of the parents works there. Otherwise it will be the country where the highest benefits are paid.
- If your right is based on a pension in both countries, the country where your children live is responsible if this country pays one of the pensions. Otherwise it will be the country where you were insured or have resided the longest.
- If your right is based on residence in both countries, the country where your children live is primarily responsible.
Link
ComfySlippers
Banned
There are quite a few different flavour of benefits claimable by non-residents. In the new, (current), system they all fall under the one umbrella.
The annoying, to some, aspect is that they are paid at the same level as UK claimants. For example basic UC of UK£680/month in The UK isn't an awful lot.
UK£680/month in Poland is almost their average monthly wage.
The average monthly wage in The UK is about £2,250
This isn't a Daily Mail rant. I'm not like that. But it's obviously a flawed system if non-contributing non-residents are given benefits whose amount is calculated on UK living standards at the expense of UK N.I. contributors.
ETA: It must be worth noting for people unfamiliar with the benefits system that it was overhauled a few years ago.
Much of the information out there, even that provided by The Government, is hopelessly outdated.
The new system, had I not been forced into it, sounds, (in principal), fair and nice and rosy.
In practice it is a hell of an unfair shambles.
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Child benefit for EU expats cuts both ways though. It was a breeze to find this:
Children's Allowance - Kindergeld in Germany
Germany offers a variety of children allowances and benefits. Kindergeld is probably the most well known of these.
(Updated - January 2016)
Taxpaying expatriate residents of Germany are, like Germans, entitled to Kindergeld if they have children. This is an allowance (also called a Child Benefit) from the German government to help defray some of the cost of raising children. It can run from €190 to €221 per child per month, and is usually made by a fund transfer into a German bank account.
Children's Allowance - Kindergeld in Germany
Germany offers a variety of children allowances and benefits. Kindergeld is probably the most well known of these.
(Updated - January 2016)
Taxpaying expatriate residents of Germany are, like Germans, entitled to Kindergeld if they have children. This is an allowance (also called a Child Benefit) from the German government to help defray some of the cost of raising children. It can run from €190 to €221 per child per month, and is usually made by a fund transfer into a German bank account.
I don't understand the bolded part. Expats from elsewhere in the EU get UK in-work benefits when they're non-resident in the UK? What am I missing here?
ComfySlippers
Banned
Maybe crossed wires.
I was talking about people outside of The UK receiving benefits.
Those people need not even be "ex-pats" or UK Citizens.
My point, for this example only, was about adults living in The UK claiming benefits for children who do not, and never have lived in the UK.
The Guardian
ETA: Whether this child benefit should be paid at all is another kettle of fish. My point, in this instance, was that it shouldnt be based on The UK cost of living. I probably didnt explain it well enough. As I said, I avoid this type of discussion usually.
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Even if this is so (don't forget NATO), we could have had a very different EU and achieved the same ends. A Common Market (remember, that thing we joined?), would doubtless have had the same effect regarding keeping the peace as this bureaucratic interfering organisation we've ended up with.
Archie Gemmill Goal
Banned
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This and your previous post seems to be a very confused representation of the system.
H'ethetheth
fishy rocket scientist
I think this phenomenon gets too little attention. The EU is a union of solidarity. The UK's insistence on special snowflakedom goes directly against that.I was listening to Cameron on the BBC this morning as I was getting ready to go out. I swear he said about the deal that "the UK gets the benefits of the EU without the costs"
Say what? So we non-UK European taxpayers are paying for your benefits. Welfare sucking scum!
We all think we are special snowflakes all the EU countries try to wrangle the best deal for themselves. The UK is no different to any other country in this respect.
Lothian
should be banned
Anyone know what will happen to the 2.2 million UK citizens living and working in Europe if we leave? They will no longer have free movement. Will they all come home? Where will we put them?
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
And they say this like it's a good thing. World Wars are what Britain's best at, we always wins, and they bring us our Finest Hours. Instead we've had the Swinging Sixties and Cool Brittania, heaven help us; is it any wonder Britain's no longer Great?
I have a dream : Cameron loses the referendum, Boris becomes PM, Trump becomes President and together we invade the European Islamic Union (for such it is, lets face it) while Putin opens a Second Front in the East. That's our Anglo-Saxon métier, not all this lah-di-dah multi-cultural bollocks. We take our croissants straight in this house, I'll have you know.
Wow, I feel so much better for that ...
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
Who cares? They've made their choice
.Anglo-Saxons might get away with métiers like that down there in Cardiff, but not up here in Glasgow.And they say this like it's a good thing. World Wars are what Britain's best at, we always wins, and they bring us our Finest Hours. Instead we've had the Swinging Sixties and Cool Brittania, heaven help us; is it any wonder Britain's no longer Great?
I have a dream : Cameron loses the referendum, Boris becomes PM, Trump becomes President and together we invade the European Islamic Union (for such it is, lets face it) while Putin opens a Second Front in the East. That's our Anglo-Saxon métier, not all this lah-di-dah multi-cultural bollocks. We take our croissants straight in this house, I'll have you know.
Wow, I feel so much better for that ...