Cont: Brexit: Now What? Turning it up to 11

[Airfix]

The Oxford Vaccine is being sold at cost, AstraZeneca aren't making a profit on it.

 

[Planigale]

AIUI The EU invested €336million in AstraZeneca, including in the UK, to the extent of €28m specifically to expand the production lines.

I will treat your claim that the UK 100% paid for development of the vaccine with Oxford and that the EU investment did not include the UK production lines as your opinion rather than fact. This is because you have presented your case as the EU trying to cheat the UK out of its vaccinations.

So I take it that you can find no evidence to support your assertion.

Try reading this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54303061
or this
https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/...9-vaccine-production-sets-vaccination-targets
or this
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1438
or this
https://www.ft.com/content/8b48a853-5b14-4378-91d4-17026fa15472

 

[Planigale]

AIUI The EU invested €336million in AstraZeneca, including in the UK, to the extent of €28m specifically to expand the production lines.

I will treat your claim that the UK 100% paid for development of the vaccine with Oxford and that the EU investment did not include the UK production lines as your opinion rather than fact. This is because you have presented your case as the EU trying to cheat the UK out of its vaccinations.

I think from the EU sources that the EU invested only by loans from the EIB in manufacturing, otherwise they only advance ordered allowing AZ to spend that money on manufacturing capacity for those orders.

 

[Vixen]

So I take it that you can find no evidence to support your assertion.

Try reading this
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54303061
or this
https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/...9-vaccine-production-sets-vaccination-targets
or this
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1438
or this
https://www.ft.com/content/8b48a853-5b14-4378-91d4-17026fa15472

AFAICS these are just press releases (BBC, FT) as put out by the government spelling out how much the UK are investing.

Do you have anything that isn't a Boris Johnson puff piece?

 

[Vixen]

I think from the EU sources that the EU invested only by loans from the EIB in manufacturing, otherwise they only advance ordered allowing AZ to spend that money on manufacturing capacity for those orders.

No, we are not talking about paying for advance orders. I was referring to EU investment into (a) developing the AstraZeneca vaccine and (b) additional investment into the UK factory in Wrexham to expand production. IOW the EU seems pretty certain it had an interest in procuring that vaccine.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Yes, this is self interest. What they are saying is that they will not impose trade barriers / tariffs on UK produced vaccine but regard it as if it had been produced in the EU. Entirely reasonable in the circumstances.

What is not reasonable to say is that the output of vaccine produced in the EU should be prioritised for EU use and exports out of the EU will be restricted to select third countries (excluding the UK) and for the purposes of this case the UK factory is defined as being within the EU therefore AZ have to prioritise output of the UK factory for EU use.

That's not what the contract said at all though. The contract said 'if you want to send us vaccines make sure it was made in the EU unless we give you permission otherwise, oh and to avoid hassle we will consider the UK plants to be EU plants'

It had nothing to do with trade barriers or tariffs.

The 'export ban' had nothing to do with this clause either it was because there was suspicion that AZ were exporting vaccine to countries paying more for it while being unable to meet EU demand (whether this was happening or not I have no idea)

The claim on the UK factory was that AZ had made a contract with the EU to deliver X vials of vaccine and that the contract could be potentially fulfilled by using UK supply as well as EU supply. Of course AZ had other contractual commitments for which that supply was earmarked.

And then all of this gets conflated into THE EU ARE TRYING TO STEAL OUR VACCINE!

 

[Airfix]

The EU Commission admitted being in the wrong, why are you still defending something they themselves won't?

 

[Klimax]

The EU Commission admitted being in the wrong, why are you still defending something they themselves won't?

About what and evidence for it.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Will we get a referendum on joining the trans-Pacific trading bloc and become subject to their rules, regulations and tribunal?

 

[angrysoba]

ETA: Wrong thread.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The EU Commission admitted being in the wrong, why are you still defending something they themselves won't?

Admitted being wrong about what? Their interpretation of the contract?

I'm merely pointing out what my view of the facts of the case are. And it's certainly not 'the EU tried to steal our vaccine!'

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Will we get a referendum on joining the trans-Pacific trading bloc and become subject to their rules, regulations and tribunal?

Once they find out there are 'Muslim countries' in it they will probably change their mind about wanting to join. Raab is still struggling... he can find the Pacific on his map but no sign of the Trans.

 

[The Don]

Once they find out there are 'Muslim countries' in it they will probably change their mind about wanting to join. Raab is still struggling... he can find the Pacific on his map but no sign of the Trans.

I thought that the Conservatives were generally anti non-cisgender people

 

[Andy_Ross]

The EU has condemned "threats" against staff making Brexit-related checks at Northern Ireland's ports, and told EU officials working in Northern Ireland not to attend their duties.

On Monday, Mid and East Antrim Council withdrew staff from Brexit inspection duties over security fears.

After the local authority decided to withdraw its staff, Stormont announced it was suspending physical inspections of food consignments - particularly meat, fish and dairy products - at Larne and Belfast.

A number of lorries have been redirected away from a border control post near Belfast's Docks, says BBC News NI's Michael Fitzpatrick at the scene.

The vehicles were stopped on the main road outside the Daera site on Duncrue Street by Border Force officers on Tuesday morning and redirected elsewhere.

There is no activity taking place within the facility and the main gate into the site remains closed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55901429

 

[Airfix]

Will we get a referendum on joining the trans-Pacific trading bloc and become subject to their rules, regulations and tribunal?

There's always a cost to such things and taxpayers money is involved.
So there is a case for a referendum.

But it isn't a political union, is it ?
It has no analogue of the EU commission or parliament, it isn't a customs union with a common external tariff and it does not interfere with the internal affairs of it's members.

 

[Airfix]

Once they find out there are 'Muslim countries' in it they will probably change their mind about wanting to join.

Some of my friends are Muslims.
Why would I have a problem trading with Muslim countries ?

 

[Andy_Ross]

There's always a cost to such things and taxpayers money is involved.
So there is a case for a referendum.

But it isn't a political union, is it ?
It has no analogue of the EU commission or parliament, it isn't a customs union with a common external tariff and it does not interfere with the internal affairs of it's members.

Do you think the Brexiteers will be happy when our trade is regulated by Vietnam and Malaysia?

 

[catsmate]

What a surprise that a Brexiteer sees things as the EU robbing the UK.

How long before the Daily Mail blames Muslims and the Brexiteers swallow that too?

Hardly surprising, the Brexiteers desperately need to distract attention from the abject failure that is Brexit.

 

[The Don]

More evidence that the geniuses in Westminster didn't read and/or understand the Brexit deal. The UK can no longer export live shellfish to the EU.

The EU has told British fishermen they are indefinitely banned from selling live mussels, oysters, clams, cockles and scallops to its member states.

As the UK is now a separate country, it is not allowed to transport the animals to the EU unless they have already been treated in purification plants.

But the industry says it does not have enough tanks ready and the process can slow exports, making them less viable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55903599

This is the bit where it's clear that Boris Johnson and his numpty friends didn't understand (or maybe didn't care) what they had signed us up for:

The UK government previously said it thought the restrictions on exports of bivalve molluscs - such as mussels, clams, cockles, scallops and oysters - would end on 21 April.

This was because Brussels was "expected" to change its rules on that date to allow unpurified shellfish in from non-member states.

But it has emerged - as first reported by Politics Home - that the European Commission wrote to leading UK companies on 13 and 19 January to tell them the current arrangement was in fact permanent.

 

[Garrison]

More evidence that the geniuses in Westminster didn't read and/or understand the Brexit deal. The UK can no longer export live shellfish to the EU.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55903599

This is the bit where it's clear that Boris Johnson and his numpty friends didn't understand (or maybe didn't care) what they had signed us up for:

Technically of course its still possible, you just need to be fishing in waters rated A+ for cleanliness, which of course few British waters are. It really does come across as a case of Boris and co. hearing what they wanted to hear, the equivalent of Trump's 'a lot of people are saying'.