Brexit: Now What? Part III

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McHrozni said:
The idea UK voted for Brexit on the basis of the need to control migration without actually showing the need to control migration in the first place beggars belief. The rest is a farce.
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Recent report that 28% of births in England&Wales were to mothers born outside the UK would suggest there is at least a need for some discussion.
 
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McHrozni said:
Chlorinated chicken and hormone fed beef are problematic issues, unlabelled GMO products not so much. Europe is indeed making a mistake with this GMO-free BS. Opposition to GMOs is about as scientific, as meaningful and as beneficial to the society as opposition to vaccines is.

McHrozni
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Quite true, but we are talking about the public reaction here, the tabloids would go into full blown panic mode if 'Frankenstein foods' were about to be unleashed on the public.
 
Aber said:
Recent report that 28% of births in England&Wales were to mothers born outside the UK would suggest there is at least a need for some discussion.
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These children are not migrants, but UK natives. What is the problem associated with people born in the UK having mothers who were not?
 
Garrison said:
Quite true, but we are talking about the public reaction here, the tabloids would go into full blown panic mode if 'Frankenstein foods' were about to be unleashed on the public.
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The same tabloids who currently hump the Brexit train? :)

Poetic justice.

McHrozni
 
Aber said:
Recent report that 28% of births in England&Wales were to mothers born outside the UK would suggest there is at least a need for some discussion.
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Sure.

Declaring the migration needs to be controlled and then rather than controlling half the migration you're entitled to control anyway you throw the country under a speeding train in order to be able to control the other half and then start figuring out whether the migration needed to be controlled in the first place is not "discussion" though.

McHrozni
 
Aber said:
Recent report that 28% of births in England&Wales were to mothers born outside the UK would suggest there is at least a need for some discussion.
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here are additional details on your 28% stat :

There were 696,271 live births in England and Wales in 2016, a decrease of 0.2% from 2015.
In 2016, the total fertility rate (TFR) decreased to 1.81 children per woman, from 1.82 in 2015.
The average age of mothers in 2016 increased to 30.4 years, compared with 30.3 years in 2015.
Women aged 40 and over had a higher fertility rate than women aged under 20 for the second time since 1947.
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Seeing you have a birth rate of 1.81% (and in decline from previous years !), maybe the discussion is not so much about the 28% , but the reason why it is so low on the 72%.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...letins/birthsummarytablesenglandandwales/2016
 
Craig B said:
These children are not migrants, but UK natives. What is the problem associated with people born in the UK having mothers who were not?
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It's an odd statistic.
Why ignore where the father was born?
Why ignore the nationality of the mother?

100% of my kids have a father born abroad, for example.
And even worse, that father's mother was born abroad as well!
:jaw-dropp

So no, it's not a signifier of anything much without any details.
It's a nice stat to try and scare the xenophobes, though.
 
Boris Johnson is in Australia drumming up support for the UK.

Apologies for the source (Sky Aus) but it seems that he has been saying how much he loves Donald Trump, and in particular his way with Twitter.

Mr Johnson said while he had been a critic of Mr Trump before he was elected president, he found him 'extremely gracious' when they met in New York in January.
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He told the crowd of political and business leaders at the Lowy Lecture in Sydney that Mr Trump's often controversial pronouncements on Twitter - which this week included a tirade against his attorney-general and his plan to ban transgender people from the US military - weren't necessarily bad.

'Actually, I think, sometimes firing off things, tweeting in the middle of the night exactly what you think can be pretty refreshing,' he said.
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BoJo is a national embarrassment :mad:

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/poli...-johnson-a-fan-of-donald-trump-s-twitter.html
 
The Don said:
Boris Johnson is in Australia drumming up support for the UK.

Apologies for the source (Sky Aus) but it seems that he has been saying how much he loves Donald Trump, and in particular his way with Twitter.





BoJo is a national embarrassment :mad:

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/poli...-johnson-a-fan-of-donald-trump-s-twitter.html
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He's just annoyed he doesn't have the gumption to go as far as Trump.

But there is one other major distinction, Johnson's "gaffs" etc. are part of a very calculated image. I've seen this in action, saw him rough his hair and rumple his jacket before the cameras started running.

I can find Trump frightening but I know he is what he appears to be, Johnson I despise because he is an intelligent man playing the buffoon for personal betterment.
 
Phillip Hammond is saying that any post-Brexit transitional arrangements will have to cease by the next election in 2022.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40747747

Some of the wording is IMO very illuminating:

He hoped that "in the immediate aftermath ... goods will continue to flow across the border between the UK and the EU in much the same way as they do now".
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Brexit was, according to its supporters, supposed to usher in a new age of opportunity as the UK, freed from the shackles of EU membership could make its own way in the world. In that context "aftermath" doesn't really sound like a suitable description post Brexit. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, it seems that the schedule for negotiations is slipping but David Davis is exhibiting blind optimism:

Brexit Secretary David Davis is confident negotiations will continue as planned after reports that Brussels may delay trade talks because of a lack of progress on the "divorce" settlement.

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier had wanted progress on the exit payment, citizens' rights and the Northern Ireland border issue by October.

The Daily Telegraph has reported this could now slip back to December.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40744566

One of my joke programme/project management pieces of advice is "the quicker you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up" - I didn't realise that the UK government were aware of it and were applying it so literally :D
 
Maybe he meant with "aftermath" that after brexit new grass will grow ;) ?

[af-ter-math, ahf-]
noun
1.
something that results or follows from an event, especially one of a disastrous or unfortunate nature; consequence:
the aftermath of war; the aftermath of the flood.
2.
a new growth of grass following one or more mowings, which may be grazed, mowed, or plowed under
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Aber said:
Recent report that 28% of births in England&Wales were to mothers born outside the UK would suggest there is at least a need for some discussion.
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Is there?

My kid has a mother born outside the UK. What would you like to discuss?

Where is the problem?
 
Craig B said:
These children are not migrants, but UK natives. What is the problem associated with people born in the UK having mothers who were not?
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Not necessarily. If the parents were legal immigrants than yes the kids are British. If the parents were illegal than more than likely the kids are not British.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Is there?

My kid has a mother born outside the UK. What would you like to discuss?

Where is the problem?
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There is a need to discuss it yes, but maybe not in the direction msot people would think. As mentionned in my post above from where the 28% is sourced (gov statistic), if you look at the 72% and look at the fertility rate of 1.81, 700K birth, and remove those 28% - assuming no more EU immigration and control of non EU immigration, then england and wales have a serious case of not-renewing people/population getting older which has a serie of negative consequence for retirement fond, nhs fond, infrastructure, etc...

There is conversation to be had yes, but i think that conversation would be "england/wales need migrant" rather than removing the 28%.
 
Darat said:
Not necessarily. If the parents were legal immigrants than yes the kids are British. If the parents were illegal than more than likely the kids are not British.
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I'm a bit weary of the idea of upholding or denying one person's rights based on another's actions.
 
McHrozni said:
Sure, but the issue was unlabeled GM products, presumably on store shelves in UK, not GM crops in general. There are issues with GM, but not so much on the consumer side.

McHrozni
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I think the issue about unlabelled GMO is simply one of ensuring that consumers have the information so that they can make a choice. Many people have objections to the actions of companies involved in GMO and their treatment of small farmers and would wish to boycott these products not on a scientific basis but a political one. You cannot exercise that choice if the products are unlabelled.
 
Tolls said:
It's an odd statistic.
Why ignore where the father was born?
Why ignore the nationality of the mother?

100% of my kids have a father born abroad, for example.
And even worse, that father's mother was born abroad as well!
:jaw-dropp

So no, it's not a signifier of anything much without any details.
It's a nice stat to try and scare the xenophobes, though.
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it's also quite a misleading statistic because women who travel from country to country are more likely than others to be of childbearing age.
 
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