Brexit: Now What? Part II

[Klimax]

Well I think the base of it was the underlying xenophobia of a lot of Middle England and the constant scare stories of millions of Romanians (particularly) coming here to claim benefits. There was thus this weird contradiction that Eastern Europeans were simultaneously coming here to undercut our workers by working hard for low wages and to scrounge from our benefits system. This was the main push of UKIP when the EU opened up to Romania and Bulgaria. This same idea was constantly trumpeted in the gutter press as well.

Poles were a fairly visible group among Eastern European immigrants as they were significant in number and tended to form communities and as others have said weird products started turning up in supermarkets with too many consonants in their names and the usual suspects complained that English culture was being destroyed.
...

If those products are polish import, I would stay away from them. They are too often serious health hazard.

 

[Hlafordlaes]

... The interesting thing is that levels of anti-immigration sentiment tend to be higher in the places where the immigrants aren't. Which again to me says that the scare stories and media reports are driving a lot of it rather than actual first hand experience.

What is it with old people that they start accessing only the worst media as they get older, and generally live in fear? It seems like part of a personal history rewrite, with ritual forgetting of all one's own sins, while scapegoating. Not the best way to get into heaven, assuming there were one.

 

[The Don]

What is it with old people that they start accessing only the worst media as they get older, and generally live in fear? It seems like part of a personal history rewrite, with ritual forgetting of all one's own sins, while scapegoating. Not the best way to get into heaven, assuming there were one.

It seems a natural part of ageing, that people become more conservative as they get older. There are exceptions but generally speaking people tend to get less and less adventurous and more and more frightened.

 

[neilg]

The interesting thing is that levels of anti-immigration sentiment tend to be higher in the places where the immigrants aren't. Which again to me says that the scare stories and media reports are driving a lot of it rather than actual first hand experience.

This is very true. My home city of Leicester, in which I'm proud to say the majority voted Remain, has a very high immigrant population with few problems. Out in the county the voters, with a much smaller percentage of immigrants, voted Leave. A lot of my friends, to my despair, voted Leave - believing Farage and his ilk's rubbish while disparaging the Remain's campaign as a pack of lies and scaremongering. They refused to give any credence to anything I could say, but openly lap up any garbage the Mail/Express offer up.

I'm the wrong side of 60, but I hope I'm an exception as I remain open to different cultures, remain adventurous and certainly wasn't frightened. Unlike many of my peers.

 

[ceptimus]

The interesting thing is that levels of anti-immigration sentiment tend to be higher in the places where the immigrants aren't. Which again to me says that the scare stories and media reports are driving a lot of it rather than actual first hand experience.

If you're talking about places with huge numbers of immigrants, like Leicester, then it's exactly what you would expect. The immigrants that make up a large proportion of the population are perhaps less likely to have anti-immigrant sentiments?

 

[Garrison]

If you're talking about places with huge numbers of immigrants, like Leicester, then it's exactly what you would expect. The immigrants that make up a large proportion of the population are perhaps less likely to have anti-immigrant sentiments?

You realize most of the people who conduct polling do actually account for such things? they don't just go out and grab the nearest person to interview.

 

[Craig B]

More weird ideas. This time reported in the Independent.

EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator confirms. Guy Verhofstadt has fast-tracked the plan and will include it in his mandate.​

 

[ctamblyn]

It's a paid-for "associate citizenship". The idea has been in development for a little while now (this is the second time the Indy has reported on it, IIRC). Here's some more detail from an article in November:

http://www.wort.lu/en/politics/euro...r-brits-after-brexit-583314e55061e01abe83c77f

I think it's an interesting angle.

 

[ddt]

Or she hates immigrants and will happily tank the economy to finally get rid of them. Shes tried everything else. Shes a loathesome woman.

When she was still in charge of the Home Office, in 2014, she tried to alter the contents of a government report that was, in her view, too charitable to immigrants. (Guardian). So, yes, there's evidence she simply hates immigrants.

 

[Filippo Lippi]

Looks like Boris may be on the way out.

I think he's their "useful idiot;" unfortunately they gave him the Foreign Office rather than whatever non-job they gave Pickles under Cameron

 

[Aepervius]

It's a paid-for "associate citizenship". The idea has been in development for a little while now (this is the second time the Indy has reported on it, IIRC). Here's some more detail from an article in November:

http://www.wort.lu/en/politics/euro...r-brits-after-brexit-583314e55061e01abe83c77f

I think it's an interesting angle.

It is a useless angle. It is the freedom of movement in name, but.

Related to this, Goerens proposed an amendment introducing European associate citizenship “for those who feel and wish to be part of the European project but are nationals of a former member state”.

The right of freedom of movement and to reside on EU territory should be maintained thanks to this associate citizenship, bringing with it not only rights, but also obligations such as the commitment to European values. This associate citizenship could be optional and could only be obtained by introducing a formal request.

At the same time, the authors of this amendment are asking for reciprocity from the UK. Goerens considers that the EU and especially Luxembourg have a strong interest in allowing for such a scheme for British nationals as an important work force, for example in its finance industry.

You may as well name it freedom of movement and drop the amendment.

 

[ceptimus]

It sounds like a way that the EU can continue to collect money from UK citizens. At least with this method the people that continue to pay into the EU will be willing and self selected.

I doubt it will be workable in reality - but if it's a purely voluntary scheme I have no objection to it.

 

[Craig B]

It is a useless angle. It is the freedom of movement in name, but.



You may as well name it freedom of movement and drop the amendment.

Presumably the people who want to exercise it have to pay. Then Luxembourg can have its Brit quants and the UK can keep out Slovak Romani refuse recyclers.

 

[MCel58]

It may allow those of us who already work in the EU to retain our rights to live and travel and work in any EU state rather than having to apply for work visas separately in a number of states. This is going to be a problem for the many UK citizens who are Interim managers, consultants, project managers and visiting professors and others working at present not in one EU country but in 3 or 4.

 

[Craig B]

Further report in the English language edition of "Flanders News".

Guy Verhofstadt, the Belgian charged with representing the European Parliament in the talks on the UK's departure from the EU, has a special present in store for Britons wishing to retain EU citizenship. Mr Verhofstadt wants Britons to keep the right to EU citizenship even after the UK has left the EU!
Under the proposal labelled "EU season ticket" Britons would be able to retain EU citizenship in return for an annual membership fee. These Britons would then be able to live and work in the EU, travel freely across the zone and even be able to vote in European elections. 'Season ticket' Britons would also enjoy EU consular protection across the globe.

It was Luxembourger Charles Goerens MEP who first came up with the idea. He has now agreed with Mr Verhofstadt that it will be included in the negotiations.​

 

[Aepervius]

Well then time to write a letter to my MEP on what I think about that.

 

[MCel58]

Actually what is more interesting is that there may be a Brexit related case in the Republc of Ireland's courts to test whether Article 50 can be revoked after it has been put down. https://www.theguardian.com/law/201...term=203529&subid=6687085&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

 

[Aber]

It seems a natural part of ageing, that people become more conservative as they get older. There are exceptions but generally speaking people tend to get less and less adventurous and more and more frightened.

As people age they get more experience, and perhaps less idealistic and more cynical. I'm not convinced they get more frightened.

 

[ctamblyn]

Well then time to write a letter to my MEP on what I think about that.

It sounds like you object to it. If so, what are your objections exactly?

 

[Andy_Ross]

It sounds like you object to it. If so, what are your objections exactly?

Out means Out?