Brexit: Now What? Part II

[ponderingturtle]

Neither side was going to plan anything significant prior to the referendum result, such a move would be totally wasteful. Hence I'm surprised at the furore that there should have been such planning. It's purely down to political points scoring - 'oh look the Brexiteers are inept...'.

No when you are proposing a change you really should have a clear plan on what you will do if you win. There isn't a need to plan to maintain the status quo. We do nothing is the plan then.

So if your say planning to drive to australia you really should have a proposed route before you start. IF you don't people will regard you as inept.

 

[Craig B]

Please try to debate more honestly.

One of the many issues in the referendum debates was to take back control over immigration from the EU - and for many of those who voted leave, I'm sure this was the main issue.

But no one - or at least hardly anyone, and certainly not me or Prime Minister May voted for 'an end to EU immigration period.' That would be an absurd thing to wish for and quite impossible to implement.

EU immigration will continue after Brexit, but those wishing to come and work here will need to get some sort of work visa - just the same as if they wished to emigrate to the USA or Australia.

That's what I mean. The EU freedom of movement will be abolished and it will be like going to the USA, which is not "EU migration"

On the other hand if some unqualified Romanians wish to come to the UK to steal copper pipes and electrical cable then they'll find it more difficult to come here than they do under the present rules.

Most people would agree that this is a good thing.

So, Mexicans are rapists. Romanians are thieves. Should we build a wall round Romania and make them pay for it from the proceeds of their pipe and cable thefts?

 

[ceptimus]

Not all Romanians are thieves. But a sizeable proportion of the gangs that go around stealing metal from motorway cables and similar are Romanian.

Compared to the Romanian population in the UK, the number of Romanian metal thieves in the UK is VERY disproportionately high.

Close your eyes to it if you must. Bury your head in the sand. I don't care.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The blades are made there, as far as I know. We've just had a 75m blade put on display in Victoria Square:
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/hull...people-think/story-30041730-detail/story.html
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/stun...-by-surprise/story-30038350-detail/story.html

At 75m, I can't see them being used on mainland UK, but they are likely to be used in the offshore projects:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-38160790

I recall Siemens saying that Brexit would impact on the future, saying that Hull would miss out on the "Prize" (presumably more exports than a Brexit UK would bring)
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/how-...after-brexit/story-29455772-detail/story.html

As I understand it they are all for offshore use, that's why they are rebuilding the dock. When the whole thing was planned there was talk of a lot of export potential but it's on hold at the moment.

 

[Garrison]

Not all Romanians are thieves. But a sizeable proportion of the gangs that go around stealing metal from motorway cables and similar are Romanian.

Compared to the Romanian population in the UK, the number of Romanian metal thieves in the UK is VERY disproportionately high.

Close your eyes to it if you must. Bury your head in the sand. I don't care.

And what percentage of immigrants from the EU do these thieves make up? And of course you have something besides anecdotes to back up your claims? All you are doing is providing proof that you are a xenophobe.

 

[The Don]

Well it's great to know that the UK will be in the front seat when it comes to trade negotiations with the U.S.

Britain will be in the "front seat" to negotiate a new trade deal with the incoming Trump administration, a top Republican in the US Senate has said.

Then again, seeing as President elect Trump has been very clear that any trade deals must be weighted heavily in favour the U.S., perhaps not.

 

[McHrozni]

Please try to debate more honestly.

One of the many issues in the referendum debates was to take back control over immigration from the EU - and for many of those who voted leave, I'm sure this was the main issue.

But no one - or at least hardly anyone, and certainly not me or Prime Minister May voted for 'an end to EU immigration period.' That would be an absurd thing to wish for and quite impossible to implement.

EU immigration will continue after Brexit, but those wishing to come and work here will need to get some sort of work visa - just the same as if they wished to emigrate to the USA or Australia.

If there is, for example, a shortage of doctors or nurses in the UK, and there are EU citizens who can fill those roles who wish to come to live and work in the UK then I'm sure they will be welcomed in.

On the other hand if some unqualified Romanians wish to come to the UK to steal copper pipes and electrical cable then they'll find it more difficult to come here than they do under the present rules.

Most people would agree that this is a good thing.

No doubt, but the real question is whether or not is it worth the costs associated with it?

There is no serious study that I know of that has leaving EU coming ahead, despite it appearing to solve such minor issues.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

And what percentage of immigrants from the EU do these thieves make up? And of course you have something besides anecdotes to back up your claims?

No, I'm sure there was a Romanian or some other East European that stole copper within UK who benefited from freedom of movement laws. There is no doubt that tightening up the borders could reduce instances of such petty crime.

There is also no doubt that the costs of achieving immigration control will exceed any potential benefits by a humongous margin. Brexit won't be all bad, some instances of petty crime may well be reduced. Whether or not crime will be reduced overall is another matter.

It's a bit like saying getting your arms and legs cut off by a chainsaw isn't all bad because you're much less likely to need hip surgery later on in life. That's about about as bad an argument as the immigration argument for Brexit is.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

Please try to debate more honestly.

One of the many issues in the referendum debates was to take back control over immigration from the EU - and for many of those who voted leave, I'm sure this was the main issue.

But no one - or at least hardly anyone, and certainly not me or Prime Minister May voted for 'an end to EU immigration period.' That would be an absurd thing to wish for and quite impossible to implement.

EU immigration will continue after Brexit, but those wishing to come and work here will need to get some sort of work visa - just the same as if they wished to emigrate to the USA or Australia.

If there is, for example, a shortage of doctors or nurses in the UK, and there are EU citizens who can fill those roles who wish to come to live and work in the UK then I'm sure they will be welcomed in.

A large part of my job for a long time was locating people from outside the EU to come and work on IT projects. Our major non-EU sources were North America, India and the Antipodes. Compared to getting people in from the E.U. the process was time consuming, difficult and expensive all of which put unnecessary strain on project timescales and budgets.

Fortunately being members of the EU meant that we could usually get someone in from the EU to act as a stopgap on the most urgent projects. That would no longer be allowed and so UK productivity and efficiency would take a hit and the Brexit-related economic headwinds would get that little bit stronger.

On the other hand if some unqualified Romanians wish to come to the UK to steal copper pipes and electrical cable then they'll find it more difficult to come here than they do under the present rules.

Most people would agree that this is a good thing.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is, the xenophobia

 

[The Don]

Not all Romanians are thieves. But a sizeable proportion of the gangs that go around stealing metal from motorway cables and similar are Romanian.

Compared to the Romanian population in the UK, the number of Romanian metal thieves in the UK is VERY disproportionately high.

Close your eyes to it if you must. Bury your head in the sand. I don't care.

I take it that you have hard evidence to support this assertion.

It was always "gypsies" that were allegedly stealing metal back in the day (although in my local area it was "known" locals who were doing it) so perhaps it's always "others" and "outsiders" who are known to be doing it, regardless of the truth of the matter.

 

[Craig B]

I take it that you have hard evidence to support this assertion.

It was always "gypsies" that were allegedly stealing metal back in the day (although in my local area it was "known" locals who were doing it) so perhaps it's always "others" and "outsiders" who are known to be doing it, regardless of the truth of the matter.

Romanis, Romanians - who cares? All these weird foreigners will be kept out.

 

[Aepervius]

Not all Romanians are thieves. But a sizeable proportion of the gangs that go around stealing metal from motorway cables and similar are Romanian.

Compared to the Romanian population in the UK, the number of Romanian metal thieves in the UK is VERY disproportionately high.

Close your eyes to it if you must. Bury your head in the sand. I don't care.

Actually care to show us statistic first ? Because this is another one of those claim you won't give a cite ?

Anyway there is a far simpler explanation on why more romanian are caught : it is far easier for britton local to find someone willing to take their metals without question asked. You could have the exact same proportion of thieves in UK locals/Migrant but have a higher proportion of migrant caught by that. care to show us this confounding factor has also been taken into account ?

BTW Study have shown in many country that migrant actually have a lower crime rate than locals (ETA : does not seem the case in UK see my quote). And many studies have found zero impact from immigration onto crime
here is one : http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/28732/ quote " Nor were immigrant arrest rates different to natives".

I am suuuuuure you will cite something to back up your claim about migrant and crime, when study (see above) it is bunk.

 

[Aepervius]

I take it that you have hard evidence to support this assertion.

It was always "gypsies" that were allegedly stealing metal back in the day (although in my local area it was "known" locals who were doing it) so perhaps it's always "others" and "outsiders" who are known to be doing it, regardless of the truth of the matter.

And babies. For satanic ritual. Although this myth could have been local to the "retarded" people around my city, mainly those wanting the Rom camp to go "elsewhere".

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

On the other hand if some unqualified Romanians wish to come to the UK to steal copper pipes and electrical cable then they'll find it more difficult to come here than they do under the present rules.

This is pretty pathetic and also not true.

There will be nothing to stop Romanians coming here and stealing anything they want since you don't need a valid work visa to be a thief.

 

[Craig B]

This is pretty pathetic and also not true.

There will be nothing to stop Romanians coming here and stealing anything they want since you don't need a valid work visa to be a thief.

I think the idea is ... none of that kind of people will get into the UK at all. Therefore the work visa question won't arise.

 

[Aepervius]

I think the idea is ... none of that kind of people will get into the UK at all. Therefore the work visa question won't arise.

So they will stop all tourist from certain countries to come completely in the UK ? That will be sure to sink the economy more than a bad brexit .

 

[Lothian]

I think the idea is ... none of that kind of people will get into the UK at all. Therefore the work visa question won't arise.

It is a cunning plan, we ruin our economy reducing the value of the pound which makes visiting the UK a really attractive proposition for Europeans and other nationalities. We then make them queue at customs for 2 weeks (giving them that true British experience) before telling them they can't come in. That will teach the foreign feckers to have the temerity to be born outside our shores.

 

[ceptimus]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2963368/Romanians-EIGHT-times-likely-jailed-Britons.html

Yes, it's from the Daily Mail. But remember in this forum you're supposed to address the argument and not attack the source.

 

[Craig B]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2963368/Romanians-EIGHT-times-likely-jailed-Britons.html

Yes, it's from the Daily Mail. But remember in this forum you're supposed to address the argument and not attack the source.

We're not allowed to attack the Daily Mail?

 

[ceptimus]

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