The Good Friday agreement gets in the way of fully taking back control of the Northern Ireland / Ireland border. The EU is still saying it will have to install a hard border there - so eventually the border may become supervised.
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I'm really not understanding this - you say you wanted to take back control of our borders as one of your reasons to leave the EU, but our only land border not being under our control doesn't bother you?
That seems remarkably.... inconsistent.
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
None of them understand anything about trade economics.
I already explained that the Good Friday Agreement means that this particular border should remain open. What don't you understand? Do you think the Good Friday Agreement should be broken?
catsmate
No longer the 1
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catsmate
No longer the 1
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2007
- Messages
- 34,789
Again, not true.
There I think you have hit on the pivotal point. Legal migrants are far less profitable to employ, what with the minimum wage, workers rights etc. Illegal immigrants can be used to keep down overheads and suppress wages in general. Watch in the aftermath of Brexit for demands to do away with all the 'red tape' involved in employment checks.
Again, just the assertion without any explanation.
fagin
Philosopher
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
I voted in the first referendum in the 1970s for a competitive common market. At the time Ken Clarke, and others, said there would never be any possibility of a United States of Europe in the future, or a loss of sovereignty. That was patently untrue and it is the cause of a lot of the problems now. Peter Hargreaves of the investment management company Hargreaves Lansdown is supposed to have written a letter to a newspaper saying that people with business nous should be negotiating with the EU. That makes sense to me.
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It's the inconsistencies in your reasoning to achieve your goals that I'm curious about. The UK already more than any other EU country bar Ireland controls its own borders by dint that we have true physical borders. Leaving the EU will not according to you change the current situation so how does leaving the EU give us back control of our borders?
If you read the thread you would find your memory is rather inaccurate.
The UK was a founding member of EFTA. What did you think a move to the ever-closer-union of the EEC meant?
He was right, wasn't he? The UK didn't join the Euro, Schengen, Eurocorps, etc...
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
I agree that there were Brexit people in those days like Tony Benn and Barbara Castle and Enoch Powell. James Goldsmith used to describe Britain as becoming an EU province. In a way the Irish problem has become less dangerous since EU membership. The thing that annoys me is I distinctly remember Ken Clarke saying on TV categorically denying that Britain would ever be part of a United States of Europe, which is patently untrue. This is an example of the referendum debate at the time:
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/a-lesson-from-the-1975-referendum/
Hilarious. Thanks. British politics is just funny in a way you don't elsewhere.
My favorite:
Parliamentary Democracy means that every man and woman over eighteen is entitled to vote to elect his or her Member of Parliament to serve in the House of Commons
Doesn't that just make you ill?
His memory is accurate in that the economic benefits were accentuated and the political effects were minimised to the voters. As to the specific regarding Kenneth Clarke, I don't recall.
Economic closer ties rather than political.
Which is not relevant when the specific quote refers to there ever being a USE. Now if you were to say categorically that there will never be a USE, you might say Kenneth Clarke is correct. You would however be directly contradicting the stated aims of the likes of J -C Juncker.
Slightly different to your earlier post, and more like the assurances I recall hearing - that if it came to it we could try to veto it or leave...
Don't what? see?
What do you think it means?My favorite:
Parliamentary Democracy means that every man and woman over eighteen is entitled to vote to elect his or her Member of Parliament to serve in the House of Commons
Doesn't that just make you ill?
Awesome. That assertion right after another leaver posts that Tony Benn letter. Just comedy gold.
But seriously:
DETERMINED to lay the foundations of an ever-closer union among the peoples of Europe,
Verbatim from the treaty of Rome.
"We must build a kind of United States of Europe." -Winston Churchill
It's a reference to this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uk...ore-Europes-top-court-on-prisoner-voting.html
Get how funny this is?
I have seen many Leave voters invoke Churchill and how he must be "rolling in his grave". Always makes me smile.
A favorite of mine is the phrase "we the people". You find used by bothe leavers and remainers.
Quick! Close the border to protect British Culture!
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