Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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ceptimus said:
Extension will only prolong the pain. There was a two year interval from triggering Article 50 till leaving, but now here we are seven months remaining and people crying that there's not enough time left to prepare.
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No one is prepared because, until a few weeks ago, we were being told that there would be some sort of great deal. Until the companies knew exactly what that "great deal" was going to be they had nothing to prepare for.

Now, of course, that we are being told that a "no deal" is becoming likely, they have something to prepare for, and are justifiably concerned of the chaos that will happen as there are precious few months left to prepare for something we were told was not going to happen.

In other words, you are once again posting simplistic bollocks.
 
Tolls said:
No one is prepared because, until a few weeks ago, we were being told that there would be some sort of great deal. Until the companies knew exactly what that "great deal" was going to be they had nothing to prepare for.
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Checking Fox's exact words earlier the article I found made that same point. "But Fox denied that the government was making contingency plans for the UK crashing out of the EU without a trade deal."

If the Government is not making plans why should business?

I also note the article also said
"You cannot leave the European Union and be in the single market or the customs union, they are EU legal entities,” he said. “That’s the legal definition – if you are out of the European Union, you are not in the single market or the customs union"​

The Isle of Man is not in the EU, they had no vote in the referendum. They are in the single market and customs union. Fox clearly got something wrong. What are the chances?
 
Tolls said:
No one is prepared because, until a few weeks ago, we were being told that there would be some sort of great deal. Until the companies knew exactly what that "great deal" was going to be they had nothing to prepare for.

Now, of course, that we are being told that a "no deal" is becoming likely, they have something to prepare for, and are justifiably concerned of the chaos that will happen as there are precious few months left to prepare for something we were told was not going to happen.

In other words, you are once again posting simplistic bollocks.
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But they don't as we still don't know any actual detail - the government's "detailed" advice can be boiled down to "hire some consultants and/or a logistics company and buy the latest version of accountancy software".
 
Darat said:
But they don't as we still don't know any actual detail - the government's "detailed" advice can be boiled down to "hire some consultants and/or a logistics company and buy the latest version of accountancy software".
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A fairer representation would be "prepare to be treated as a non-EU country by the EU", with a caveat of "ask the Irish government how they're going to deal with the north-south border when Northern Ireland is no longer in the EU".


Latest wheeze (from the EU side) about de-dramatizing the Irish border is not to have the checks at Belfast ports, but at UK ports with sailings to Belfast.:rolleyes:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/ni-customs-checks-would-take-place-in-britain-under-new-plans-1.3605868
 
Darat said:
But they don't as we still don't know any actual detail - the government's "detailed" advice can be boiled down to "hire some consultants and/or a logistics company and buy the latest version of accountancy software".
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Fair point.
I was being far too generous there!

But hey...why don't they just get on with it? What's the worst that can happen?
 
The Metro this morning included this bullet point:

* Customers could face a cost increase when they shop online, with parcels arrving in the UK no longer liable for low-value consignment relief on VAT.

I'm assuming this is mis-reporting, as LVCR currently applies to non-EU countries. What we will lose will lose - deal or no deal, and which I called out months ago - is that buying from EU countries will now be subject to LVCR, rather than being exempt for VAT purposes. In practice this means that anything with a declared value of £15 or more will be waylaid by the carrier, and VAT and a handling fee demanded of the intended recipient before delivery. As the Royal Mail's handling fee is a gouging £8, this will doubtless come as an expensive shock to many people.

I would like to think that in the midst of all this purported impending customs "innovation" HMRC could finally come up with an alternative so recipients can pay such VAT direct to them, and so circumvent these handling fees, but I somehow doubt that's going to be a priority.
 
Lothian said:
I also note the article also said
"You cannot leave the European Union and be in the single market or the customs union, they are EU legal entities,” he said. “That’s the legal definition – if you are out of the European Union, you are not in the single market or the customs union"​

The Isle of Man is not in the EU, they had no vote in the referendum. They are in the single market and customs union. Fox clearly got something wrong. What are the chances?
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Just standard Leaver goalpost-moving.

There's a certain irony that people voting for Brexit because they "didn't trust the Establishment," has resulted in the Leave camp more spectacularly failing to deliver on their "campaign promises" than usual.
 
The EU's rules prevent proper preparation for a no-deal Brexit, because we're not allowed to have negotiations with them about many topics until after we've left. The EU seem unlikely to change those rules, so any postponement will only prolong the period of uncertainty.

If we do leave without a deal, then that's a big change and of course there will be some disruption until things settle down again. This is not news.

Most business leaders were always opposed to leaving, so it's no surprise that they're still opposed now. But this was a democratic referendum and those business leaders got one vote each - just like the rest of us. Of course, in the media, those same business leaders get the chance to repeat their message, and are granted many thousands of times the amount of coverage that an ordinary voter gets.

Don't let business and the media trample over the democratic will of the people - that is allowed to happen far too often - hopefully it won't happen in the case of Brexit.
 
ceptimus said:
The EU's rules prevent proper preparation for a no-deal Brexit, because we're not allowed to have negotiations with them about many topics until after we've left...
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So much for Vote Leave's worthless reassurances to the voters then;
Vote Leave said:
We will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we begin any legal process to leave
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ceptimus said:
Don't let business and the media trample over the democratic will of the people - that is allowed to happen far too often - hopefully it won't happen in the case of Brexit.
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So if another referendum is held, showing that the democratic will of the people has changed over the last two years, then will all Brexiteers go along with the will of the people? Many seem to be suggesting civil unrest in such a scenario, which would seem a little more like trampling on it.

Dave
 
ceptimus said:
... Don't let business extreme political partisanship and the media BREXIT lies and propaganda trample over the democratic will of the people the conditions for an informed public - that is allowed to happen far too often - hopefully it won't happen in the case of Brexit...
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... so that sanity will prevail, the BREXIT decision will be reversed, and the UK will once again take its rightful place among advanced, modern nations.

FTFY
 
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ceptimus said:
The EU's rules prevent proper preparation for a no-deal Brexit, because we're not allowed to have negotiations with them about many topics until after we've left. The EU seem unlikely to change those rules, so any postponement will only prolong the period of uncertainty.

If we do leave without a deal, then that's a big change and of course there will be some disruption until things settle down again. This is not news.

Most business leaders were always opposed to leaving, so it's no surprise that they're still opposed now. But this was a democratic referendum and those business leaders got one vote each - just like the rest of us. Of course, in the media, those same business leaders get the chance to repeat their message, and are granted many thousands of times the amount of coverage that an ordinary voter gets.

Don't let business and the media trample over the democratic will of the people - that is allowed to happen far too often - hopefully it won't happen in the case of Brexit.
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So right, mean you never hear from that Johnson bloke any longer do you? And the Daily Mail headline today all about a remoaner... Totally one sided media!
 
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ceptimus said:
The EU's rules prevent proper preparation for a no-deal Brexit, because we're not allowed to have negotiations with them about many topics until after we've left.
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That would be a 'deal' Brexit. How can you negotiate ahead of a no-deal breakup?

Yet again you're pre-blaming the EU for all the crap that befalls us when it happens.
 
Henri McPhee said:
They had that Farage on LBC talk radio yesterday who said that he once sat next to the former head of the European Commission who said he wanted a European empire. The caller said it was about immigration not political union. It was never an economic utopia before the Common market. The United Nations is a useless organisation and since when were the Jews the chosen race?
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I prefer "a bloke down the pub told me" for a more convincing story.

As far the highlighted. What does this have to do with anything?
 
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