Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[abaddon]

I've explained this before. I would like the Irish border to look exactly the same post-Brexit as it does now.

Great. So all those dirty brown people can walk across it into the UK without any checks.

If the Irish or the EU insist on modifying the border though, that's up to them - and they will have to pay for the work.

Except neither are insisting on modifying the border. The UK is.

 

[abaddon]

That means anyone from the EU can enter the UK without passing any UK customs or checks. You are really happy with EU citizens having an unchallenged access to the UK?

It's even funnier. Those would be migrants departing the EU. Why would we care where they go after they have left? They have left and are no longer our problem.

 

[ceptimus]

Great. So all those dirty brown people can walk across it into the UK without any checks. Except neither are insisting on modifying the border. The UK is.

No. Boris has promised not to install infrastructure at the border, under any circumstances.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190730-johnson-ireland-border-checks-backstop-brexit

"He said that in all scenarios, the government will be steadfast in its commitment to the Belfast Agreement and will never put physical checks or physical infrastructure on the border," the spokeswoman added.

 

[Dave Rogers]

No. Boris has promised not to install infrastructure at the border, under any circumstances.

So he's going to take back control of our borders by not taking back control of our only actual border?

Dave

 

[Darat]

No. Boris has promised not to install infrastructure at the border, under any circumstances.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190730-johnson-ireland-border-checks-backstop-brexit

You seem to be avoiding the question.

 

[catsmate]

That means anyone from the EU can enter the UK without passing any UK customs or checks. You are really happy with EU citizens having an unchallenged access to the UK?

Or indeed people from outside the EU allowed in could pass into the UK.
Oh the horror, the horror.

 

[ceptimus]

You seem to be avoiding the question.

Which question?

 

[McHrozni]

That means anyone from the EU can enter the UK without passing any UK customs or checks. You are really happy with EU citizens having an unchallenged access to the UK?

Plus anything.

Plus it's not just the EU, it's from anywhere (WTO rules).

McHrozni

 

[Olmstead]

It's negotiation through apathy. The UK is trying to wash its hands of the border issue by simply not concerning itself with it. They're probably thinking that even the worst case border scenario won't harm the UK much, and that the EU will have to deal with most of the fallout. Maybe that's the case, I don't know? (I think Northern Ireland would definitely be screwed, but I guess no one cares about them).

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Well, there all those refugees currently being kept detained in France and Belgium at the UK's request.
I guess they would all enjoy a stroll in the Irish countryside.
And hey, if they then happen to go into a different country, not the EU's problem right?
If the UK wants to stop that happening, it's up to them to pay for it.

 

[The Don]

Well, there all those refugees currently being kept detained in France and Belgium at the UK's request.
I guess they would all enjoy a stroll in the Irish countryside.
And hey, if they then happen to go into a different country, not the EU's problem right?
If the UK wants to stop that happening, it's up to them to pay for it.

The UK would find a way to blame the EU generally, and in this case Ireland specifically. If EU nationals/residents walk across the border into Northern Ireland then it's Ireland's fault for allowing that kind of people into Ireland.

 

[Mojo]

So he's going to take back control of our borders by not taking back control of our only actual border?

Dave

I seem to remember a couple of years ago, possibly while he was Foreign Secretary, Boris saying that the Northern Ireland border wasn’t an important issue (I think the actual phrase he used was something like “not a biggie”) because at the moment not much of our trade passes across it. I may be mistaken, though, because I can’t find any actual mention of it now.

 

[Dave Rogers]

The UK would find a way to blame the EU generally, and in this case Ireland specifically. If EU nationals/residents walk across the border into Northern Ireland then it's Ireland's fault for allowing that kind of people into Ireland.

Or the EU's fault for not setting up the hard border that the UK couldn't be arsed to sort out the problems with setting up itself. It seems that the fundamental motivating factors behind Brexit are that everything should be somebody else's problem and that everything is somebody else's fault.

Dave

 

[Arcade22]

So he's going to take back control of our borders by not taking back control of our only actual border?

Dave

It's the notion that counts...

 

[Dave Rogers]

It's the notion that counts...

Well, with Boris, it's definitely not the nation that counts.

Dave

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

No. Boris has promised not to install infrastructure at the border, under any circumstances.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190730-johnson-ireland-border-checks-backstop-brexit

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it. That does make all the difference, because if there is one thing you can take to the bank it's that Boris is a man of his word.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Thanks for that, I hadn't seen it. That does make all the difference, because if there is one thing you can take to the bank it's that Boris is a man of his word.

But ceptimus has already said he does not mind if everything Boris claims is a lie, after all, then he should not have believed him in the first place, as all politicians lie anyway.

 

[Darat]

Which question?

That you are happy if there is no deal or a deal with having anyone legally allowed in the EU travelling to the UK without going through any UK customs.

 

[ceptimus]

That you are happy if there is no deal or a deal with having anyone legally allowed in the EU travelling to the UK without going through any UK customs.

I wrote my thoughts on this many times in previous episodes of this thread. I think that it's more important to keep the Northern Ireland border open than it is to prevent illegal immigrants crossing.

Most illegal immigrants that attempt to stay for long in the UK can be found by checks on housing, employment, bank accounts, spending records unless they use cash, records of who owns vehicles passing any number-plate recognition cameras and such.

Some illegal immigrants (more than the authorities admit) sneak in already on small boats, hidden in lorries, trains, cars, and by other means - so we need methods to detect them other than when they're crossing borders anyway.

The UK will continue to allow tourists from the EU to visit in any case - it's only if they stay too long or try to live or work here without permission that they'll need to be detained and expelled.

 

[Olmstead]

I wrote my thoughts on this many times in previous episodes of this thread. I think that it's more important to keep the Northern Ireland border open than it is to prevent illegal immigrants crossing.

Most illegal immigrants that attempt to stay for long in the UK can be found by checks on housing, employment, bank accounts, spending records unless they use cash, records of who owns vehicles passing any number-plate recognition cameras and such.

Some illegal immigrants (more than the authorities admit) sneak in already on small boats, hidden in lorries, trains, cars, and by other means - so we need methods to detect them other than when they're crossing borders anyway.

The UK will continue to allow tourists from the EU to visit in any case - it's only if they stay too long or try to live or work here without permission that they'll need to be detained and expelled.

What about the economic impacts of easy smuggling?