Cont: Brexit: Now What? Magic 8 Ball's up

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

To be ruthlessly fair, is it not possible that Walker & Sons may not directly export pork pies, but that a third party company may do so?

Not quite sure what pork pies have got to with anything mind you, it's hardly a key international industry.

It's possible but then you are talking about a handful no doubt.

It's obvious BJ doesn't actually care if whether what he says is true or not. It's convenient at the time.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The most ridiculous and pernicious thing in all of this is that BJ complains about these 'not widely understood' trade barriers to the US which are stopping us trading but fails to acknowledge that he is in the process of erecting the same barriers with our largest existing markets

 

[The Don]

To be ruthlessly fair, is it not possible that Walker & Sons may not directly export pork pies, but that a third party company may do so?

Not quite sure what pork pies have got to with anything mind you, it's hardly a key international industry.

The claim from number 10 was that it was Walker & Sons doing the exporting, not a third party:

In response to Mr O'Callaghan, No 10 said the PM was correct when he said that Melton Mowbray pork pies are exported to Thailand and Iceland.

His remarks, it added, were based on a briefing note from the Department for International Trade, which said the company Walker & Sons exports small shipments to Iceland, Thailand, Singapore and the Caribbean.

This turns out to have been factually incorrect.

 

[BobTheCoward]

No. Parliament already voted against a no deal Brexit. The only reason Brexit continues to go forward is that the government broke promises made by the “leave” side in the Referendum that there would be a deal even prior to filing article 50.

If a promise was made.by leave advocates, it wasn't a promise made by the government.

 

[The Don]

The most ridiculous and pernicious thing in all of this is that BJ complains about these 'not widely understood' fictitious trade barriers to the US which are allegedly stopping us trading but which make no difference whatsoever but fails to acknowledge that he is in the process of erecting the same real trade barriers with our largest existing markets which will have significant consequences for the UK economy

FTFY

 

[lomiller]

If a promise was made.by leave advocates, it wasn't a promise made by the government.

Start your own thread if you want to discuss your undemocratic system of government where elected officials systematically the will of the people and its ok for politicians to lie and break their promises to impose their will on the nation isn’t the discussion topic.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Start your own thread if you want to discuss your undemocratic system of government where elected officials systematically the will of the people and its ok for politicians to lie and break their promises to impose their will on the nation isn’t the discussion topic.

Nowhere did I say it was okay.

 

[Darat]

Special pleading.

Nope.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The EU and the terrorists (and the rest of Ireland) want the same thing, an open border. No one is holding any one to hostage or shaping their behaviour to suit another there.

Well Boris is holding a gun to britians head and threatening a no deal exit if he doesn't get mutually contradictory things.

 

[The Don]

Boris Johnson once again spreading the Brexit lie that it's up to Remainers to make Brexit a success.

"The job of everybody in Parliament" is to deliver Brexit, the PM has said at the end of the G7 summit in France.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49473497

Asked about the possibility of MPs thwarting plans to leave the EU at the end of October, Mr Johnson said: "I think it's the job of everybody in Parliament to get this thing done.

"I think it's what the people want, I also think, by the way, it's what our friends and partners on the other side of the Channel want - they want it over."

Nope, polling regularly shows that a majority of the British electorate want to Remain.

What people absolutely do not want is a no deal Brexit, the thing that Boris Johnson seems determined to foist upon us all. I note, for example that he has said that he will not prorogue Parliament in September (but saying nothing about whether he plans to do so in October).

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Boris Johnson once again spreading the Brexit lie that it's up to Remainers to make Brexit a success.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49473497



Nope, polling regularly shows that a majority of the British electorate want to Remain.

What people absolutely do not want is a no deal Brexit, the thing that Boris Johnson seems determined to foist upon us all. I note, for example that he has said that he will not prorogue Parliament in September (but saying nothing about whether he plans to do so in October).

Does it matter what he says? He's a liar.

 

[McHrozni]

Does it matter what he says? He's a liar.

He's also the lead antagonist of the fourth season of the show.

So, yes?

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

He's also the lead antagonist of the fourth season of the show.

So, yes?

McHrozni

But what he says has no bearing on what will actually happen. It's honestly pointless to pay any attention to him. Sometimes I wish the news would just ignore people who are proven liars than give them airtime.

 

[McHrozni]

But what he says has no bearing on what will actually happen.

What he says has a bearing on the perceptions and expectations of a significant segment of the British electorate. Whether it will happen or not is immaterial, the damage is already done.

It's honestly pointless to pay any attention to him. Sometimes I wish the news would just ignore people who are proven liars than give them airtime.

When said liars have the power of an important office - the PM qualifies - then the news has to cover what they say, true or false. They have the authority to change things, their promises have to be covered.

Even if the only result is they can be exposed as a liar for the n-th time (n being defined as n+1).

McHrozni

 

[Wudang]

A rant from Peter North who ran LeaveHQ
https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/8r512s/pete_north_editor_of_leavehq_having_a_serious/


Snippet.

Supposedly serious people are ignoring what is said, assuming the EU will eventually fold and make unprecedented concessions, opening up huge holes in its own legal order for the sole benefit if the UK - because somehow the UK is special. The EU will not do this.

eta: I like quoting him as he was the editor of Leave HQ - a very public Brexxiter and who is that mythological creature that apparently doesn't exist - a Leave voter, indeed campaigner, who says this is not the Brexit he voted for.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

A rant from Peter North who ran LeaveHQ
https://www.reddit.com/r/brexit/comments/8r512s/pete_north_editor_of_leavehq_having_a_serious/


Snippet.




eta: I like quoting him as he was the editor of Leave HQ - a very public Brexxiter and who is that mythological creature that apparently doesn't exist - a Leave voter, indeed campaigner, who says this is not the Brexit he voted for.

I think he is missing the point though... the purpose here is not to get concessions from the EU but rather to be able to either get the EU to make concessions therefore being hailed as a hero or to be able to pin the blame for the no-deal brexit on the EU because they were stubborn.

And so far it's working.

 

[McHrozni]

I think he is missing the point though... the purpose here is not to get concessions from the EU but rather to be able to either get the EU to make concessions therefore being hailed as a hero or to be able to pin the blame for the no-deal brexit on the EU because they were stubborn.

And so far it's working.

It's working among how large a portion of the electorate? I'll guess it to be at 20-25%.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

It's working among how large a portion of the electorate? I'll guess it to be at 20-25%.

McHrozni

Add that to the 30% or so who actively want a no-deal Brexit and Boris Johnson is looking at a winning hand

 

[McHrozni]

Add that to the 30% or so who actively want a no-deal Brexit and Boris Johnson is looking at a winning hand

No, those would be entirely contained within the 20-25% asylum.

My guess is the number of people who know what a no-deal Brexit entails and want one are 5% or less of the electorate. Other supporters are those who have no idea what the no-deal Brexit truly means, but buy the sweet sweet lies of Planet Brexit.

The elecorate seems to put the blame more on BJ than on EU according to this poll:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic.../08/27/who-would-britons-blame-no-deal-brexit

They're also ready to blame just about everyone for the debacle, even 51% of Leave voters agree BJ carries at least "some" blame. Almost 80% think it's the fault of EU for not agreeing to the obvious British superior strength and bully the weak little UK instead.

McHrozni

 

[The Don]

No, those would be entirely contained within the 20-25% asylum.

I don't think so, the no-dealers aren't seeking to blame anyone at the moment.

My guess is the number of people who know what a no-deal Brexit entails and want one are 5% or less of the electorate. Other supporters are those who have no idea what the no-deal Brexit truly means, but buy the sweet sweet lies of Planet Brexit.

I think your guess is miles wide of the mark. A significant proportion of people around here in this comparatively well-to-do rural constituency are firmly in favour of a no-deal Brexit but do have a reasonable understanding of the implications.

They really do think that a 5%-10% GDP hit, short term shortages and a constriction is a price worth paying in order to leave the EU. Some are actively looking forward to it because it'll teach people a lesson

The elecorate seems to put the blame more on BJ than on EU according to this poll:
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politic.../08/27/who-would-britons-blame-no-deal-brexit

They're also ready to blame just about everyone for the debacle, even 51% of Leave voters agree BJ carries at least "some" blame. Almost 80% think it's the fault of EU for not agreeing to the obvious British superior strength and bully the weak little UK instead.

McHrozni

The EU-blaming is still gathering momentum. Don't want to get into the full mode until after a no-deal.