Cont: Brexit: Now What? 9 Below Zero

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Pixel42 said:
Depends on the agreement. The term 'hard Brexit' is usually used to mean one which involves leaving the single market/customs union. But it's an orderly exit.



If no agreement is reached by the end of the transition period and we end up defaulting to WTO rules on 1st Jan 2021, that's called crashing out without a deal.
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But surely the logical order is set up the deal then exit. May got that right. Any trade deal after Brexit is just a trade deal like any other country outside the EU is going to negotiate.
 
ceptimus said:
Yes. They do. Anyone who wants to buy a copy can - they're on sale alongside those other papers you mention.

At one time (roughly 1956 to 1976) the Daily Mirror was the UK newspaper with the greatest daily circulation, but it's become less popular in recent years.

What's your point?
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That you clearly don't understand circulation figures and simple mathematics.
 
SezMe said:
I think it all begins here:



Then in response to some questioning your post you wrote:



which I quoted and highlighted some words:


and added some snark:


That's all. I was calling attention to your original claim in contrast to the later changed claim. Nothing more. Your statement that I was "quite obviously referencing" something else is, to quote you, "quite obviously" wrong. In that same post you said I implied something by using the phrase "weren't going to take it sitting down" which I cannot find although it is entirely possible that I did but the search tools don't find it.

tl;dr I was ONLY calling out your goalpost moving. NOTHING more. Relax, John, we've all done it. No biggie.
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Well no. You were claiming that Leave zealots would - had the referendum result been a narrow victory for Leave - have done pretty much the same thing as Remain zealots have been doing since the referendum. And..... the Remain zealots have been conducting a long and concerted campaign either to have a second referendum or to have the result overturned.

And then you appear to have been claiming that one pre-referendum statement by one Leave zealot, about what (hypothetically) might have happened had the referendum result been a narrow Leave majority (and which, for example, might just as easily have been reasonably interpreted as a clarion call for Leave believers to get out and vote....), was somehow good evidence that the Leave zealots would have behaved just as the Remain zealots have done.

As you say: no biggie. We've all done it (including the condescention ;) )
 
McHrozni said:
Because you don't believe it or is there a more compelling reason?

Both Ireland and Scotland have been asking the question in polls and both are within the poll margin of error.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Ireland

If all you have against this is your opinion, I'm afraid I'll have to ask for more evidence in the matter.

McHrozni
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Oh crikey. You're either creating a straw man here or simply barking up the wrong goalpost.

Firstly, the post to which I was responding had nothing whatsoever to do with potential calls for independence from parts of the UK - it was in fact wholly to do with the arrangement of trade agreements with other countries of the World. It would perhaps be an idea to read the post to which I was responding. It's catsmate's post #2189.

And secondly, the bit with which I was taking issue was, very specifically (as my post made perfectly clear), the idea that the UK was in a state of "collapse". Again, I'd point out that the word "collapse" - in the context in which it was used in the post to which I was responding - had nothing whatsoever to do with Scottish or NI independence and the potential consequent future reduction in size of the UK. In fact it was very clearly referring to (in catsmate's opinion) the imminent collapse of the UK economy. The poster to whom I was responding - catsmate - was suggesting that other World countries would probable not even want to conduct trade deals with the UK, owing to (as he/she believed) "the collapse of the UK". Again, go back and read catsmate's post #2189, which was the post to which I was responding.

Other than that (as they say).......
 
Information Analyst said:
That you clearly don't understand circulation figures and simple mathematics.
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Can you be more specific?

Start by admitting I am 100% correct about the Daily Mirror being the UK newspaper with the highest circulation for about twenty years before 1976. I accept your implicit apology in advance.

Next you can give your explanation as to why the Daily Mirror lost its dominance.

Thank you.
 
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a_unique_person said:
Brexit on 31 Jan 2020, then negotiate a trade agreement. Is that right? In other words a hard Brexit.
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“Hard Brexit” is just Brexit without staying in the customs or trade area. All the options under consideration qualify as a “Hard Brexit”. This is a no-deal Brexit, which if much worse for the UK than any of the Brexit scenarios discussed when the referendum was taking place.
 
ceptimus said:
Next you can give your explanation as to why the Daily Mirror lost its dominance.
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Because The Sun switched to sensationalist tripe and topless bints on page 3, while The Mirror retained at least a shred of journalistic dignity?
 
Piers came much later - long after the circulation of the Daily Mirror had already declined.

Throughout the period of its dominance, the Mirror strongly supported the Labour party and recommended its readers to vote Labour in general elections. I think its decline began when it recommended readers to vote Callaghan, but Thatcher won. During the Thatcher years it continued to back the losing side, and by the time Blair came on the scene, the by then dominant Sun, previously staunchly Conservative, also backed Blair, possibly preventing the Mirror from recapturing some of its former readers.

As usual, our Information Analyst has things largely wrong. It's the changing views of newspaper readers that result in the decline of some titles, when those titles remain stuck with their outdated policies. People that believe prosperous newspapers have much effect on election outcomes are fools - they assign cause and effect exactly backwards.

The truth is that those newspapers that back the winning horse are the ones that do well: newspaper buyers like to read editorial that agrees with and reinforces the views that they already hold. What sort of person spends money every day buying a newspaper that they disagree with?
 
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ceptimus said:
Can you be more specific?

Start by admitting I am 100% correct about the Daily Mirror being the UK newspaper with the highest circulation for about twenty years before 1976. I accept your implicit apology in advance.

Next you can give your explanation as to why the Daily Mirror lost its dominance.
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The past circulation of the Mirror is immaterial when considering the wider circulation of right-wing newspapers currently. I'm talking about the situation now, not in 1976, granddad.
 
lomiller said:
“Hard Brexit” is just Brexit without staying in the customs or trade area. All the options under consideration qualify as a “Hard Brexit”. This is a no-deal Brexit, which if much worse for the UK than any of the Brexit scenarios discussed when the referendum was taking place.
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So what happens on the 31 Jan? With no trade deal negotiated then there is no ongoing trade within existing EU laws?
 
a_unique_person said:
So what happens on the 31 Jan? With no trade deal negotiated then there is no ongoing trade within existing EU laws?
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We're in the transition period where the UK abides by EU rules and the EU continues to trade.

Boris Johnson will ensure that the transition period ends on 31 December 2020.
 
GlennB said:
Because The Sun switched to sensationalist tripe and topless bints on page 3, while The Mirror retained at least a shred of journalistic dignity?
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Yeah, but to give ceptimus his due, the Sun gave the readers what they wanted. In fact, this is often the point about policies we don’t like that are popular nonetheless. It is often assumed that it is some kind of brainwashing whereas it may be better thought of as pandering. But you can only pander to what already exists. In fact, this is often the argument about Boris. He wrote two articles and chose the one with the view that got him most traction.
 
ceptimus said:
Because the obvious thing to do when you're deeply in debt is to borrow more than ever and spend your way out of trouble.
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Bad idea for an individual, usually. Although it may be counterintuitive, for a country that can literally print its own money and can borrow money for 10 years at an interest rate of, let's see, currently 0.77% (effectively negative in real terms compared to 2% inflation), it's actually a pretty good idea if the alternative is cutting needed government services.
 
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