Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[Tolls]

"2012 and 2013, Welcome to Hereford road signs were defaced to read "Poland""

Don't remember any of the Hereford signs being defaced.

A number of the road signs to certain villages were (including, iirc, Marden), though, up the A49.
Confused our kids a bit on the way to school.

 

[jimbob]

You guys keep using this word, I'm not sure it's appropriate. Could you present some evidence maybe?

McHrozni

The plan is become leader of the Tory party and PM.

The second might not follow from the first, which would be amusing, if unfortunately somewhat unlikely.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Interestingly, people in the UK are now much less concerned about immigration - one of the key drivers behind Brexit.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48545143

Of course it could be that Brexiteers think that, as Brexit is underway, all of their issues relating to immigration will be resolved as a result.

I hope that it really does reflect more positive attitudes to immigrants and immigration.

The Syrian refugee crisis has gone quiet since then. The papers are no longer full of stories about scary brown people lurking around Calais, just waiting for a chance to sneak across the channel and murder us all in our beds.

 

[Darat]

Boris is proposing a huge tax cut for high earners funding it by using



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Don't know if this means he plans to do a deal (in which case money put aside for the dire consequences of a no-deal Brexit will be spunked away on the rich) or if he's going to default on the divorce payment any use that.

What a strange thing to do. I mean it could be seen as buying votes, which of course it isn't.

I am sure all those conservatives party members sat on their gold plated final salary pensions being effected is purely coincidental!

 

[Darat]

He also plans to increase National Insurance contributions.

So he is giving a tax cut with one hand and taking it away with the other.

You may not be aware but you don't pay NI contributions on income from your pension... Again totally coincidental.

 

[Darat]

Interestingly, people in the UK are now much less concerned about immigration - one of the key drivers behind Brexit.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48545143

Of course it could be that Brexiteers think that, as Brexit is underway, all of their issues relating to immigration will be resolved as a result.

I hope that it really does reflect more positive attitudes to immigrants and immigration.

Change of editor at the Daily Mail?

 

[Darat]

The plan His right is to become leader of the Tory party and PM.



The second might not follow from the first, which would be amusing, if unfortunately somewhat unlikely.

FTFY

 

[KDLarsen]

Boris is proposing a huge tax cut for high earners funding it by using



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48577579

Don't know if this means he plans to do a deal (in which case money put aside for the dire consequences of a no-deal Brexit will be spunked away on the rich) or if he's going to default on the divorce payment any use that.

An interesting point was raised on Twitter, showing that only 20% of Conservative party members earn above £50,000 (with some 24% declining to answer). Even if all 24% of those declining to answer are above, it's still not a majority. Of course, it won't hurt him with those 44%, but still..

Elsewhere, it's being pointed out that such a move would be disastrous for the Tory party in Scotland. Why? Because the Scots have a devolved tax setup (with a 41p charge starting at £43,000 or so, instead of of the 40p charge at £50,000) so most Scottish middle-class taxpayers won't actually see a tax cut - but they'll still have to pay the increased NI payment, since it's locked to the English NI payment level.

 

[GlennB]

I doubt whether it would be much of a vote winner in a leadership election, and suspect it would be a vote loser in a GE. My reading of things is that the general public are pretty sick of the great & the good getting kid-glove treatment over their taxes.

 

[Darat]

An interesting point was raised on Twitter, showing that only 20% of Conservative party members earn above £50,000 (with some 24% declining to answer). Even if all 24% of those declining to answer are above, it's still not a majority. Of course, it won't hurt him with those 44%, but still..

Elsewhere, it's being pointed out that such a move would be disastrous for the Tory party in Scotland. Why? Because the Scots have a devolved tax setup (with a 41p charge starting at £43,000 or so, instead of of the 40p charge at £50,000) so most Scottish middle-class taxpayers won't actually see a tax cut - but they'll still have to pay the increased NI payment, since it's locked to the English NI payment level.

Was that including pensions?

 

[Vixen]

An interesting point was raised on Twitter, showing that only 20% of Conservative party members earn above £50,000 (with some 24% declining to answer). Even if all 24% of those declining to answer are above, it's still not a majority. Of course, it won't hurt him with those 44%, but still..

Elsewhere, it's being pointed out that such a move would be disastrous for the Tory party in Scotland. Why? Because the Scots have a devolved tax setup (with a 41p charge starting at £43,000 or so, instead of of the 40p charge at £50,000) so most Scottish middle-class taxpayers won't actually see a tax cut - but they'll still have to pay the increased NI payment, since it's locked to the English NI payment level.

Plus they will no longer get their usual 40% tax back on their pension contributions.

 

[Nessie]

I think it would be brilliant if Sajid Javid got the PMs job. Brexit was largely driven by an anti-immigrant campaign. So, give the job of ensuring Brexit to a second generation immigrant.

 

[Andy_Ross]

From the former Foreign Editor of The Times Martin Fletcher


Repellent, chaotic and a serial liar, Boris Johnson would be a catastrophic prime minister

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...iar-boris-johnson-would-be-catastrophic-prime

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

From the former Foreign Editor of The Times Martin Fletcher


Repellent, chaotic and a serial liar, Boris Johnson would be a catastrophic prime minister

https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...iar-boris-johnson-would-be-catastrophic-prime

You could replace the name with any other candidate and the headline would still be apt.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I gather the 1922 Committee didn't change any rules so the party faithful will eventually get to choose between two finalists (instead of the up to 8 that was speculated on). That doesn't guarantee they'll be able to choose a rabid No-Dealer but whoever looks most likely to do it will win.

The only thing between us and No Deal after that would be a No Confidence vote in parliament. I don't quite see that working.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I have been wondering why so many Tories are standing to be PM. I think it is because they genuinely believe that they would have done a better job than May at Brexit.

I think it is a sign of over confidence beating a genuine understanding of the issues and reality.

When the next PM gets bogged down like May did, I wonder if that will finally dent the over confidence and wake Brexiters up to that reality.

I think it has more to do with the fact that there is no-one standing who has anything particularly recommending them, the best qualification any of them has is recognisability, so it's open to anyone with sufficient confidence or sense of entitlement.

 

[Vixen]

News update: Labour plan to put forward a motion tomorrow blocking a no-deal Brexit and effectively taking the matter out of the hands of the government.

Labour has tabled a cross-party motion to try to stop a future prime minister pushing through a no-deal Brexit against the wishes of MPs.

The party plans to force a vote on Wednesday which would give MPs control of the timetable on 25 June.

Labour says if the motion passes, MPs will be able to introduce legislation on that day to avoid a no-deal scenario at the end of October.

Some Tory leadership hopefuls have said they would leave the EU without a deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48598760

Considering Andrea Leadsom, Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab have all said they would leave 31 October even if there was no deal will have them spitting nails.

I expect the HoC will be very lively tomorrow.

 

[Craig B]

In part by conquest of smaller nations and in part by a more peaceful political process - England-Scotland and Castillie-Aragon being the two most famous.

McHrozni

The War of the Spanish Succession included a rather bloody siege of Barcelona in 1713-14 which was not "peaceful". Aragonese institutions were then abolished by the Nueva Planta decrees.^WP

 

[The Don]

News update: Labour plan to put forward a motion tomorrow blocking a no-deal Brexit and effectively taking the matter out of the hands of the government.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48598760

Considering Andrea Leadsom, Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab have all said they would leave 31 October even if there was no deal will have them spitting nails.

I expect the HoC will be very lively tomorrow.

Sadly party tribalism is such that the motion is likely to fail IMO as no Conservative would dare vote for it for fear of losing the whip/

 

[McHrozni]

The War of the Spanish Succession included a rather bloody siege of Barcelona in 1713-14 which was not "peaceful". Aragonese institutions were then abolished by the Nueva Planta decrees.^WP

War of Spanish succession was a war between houses of Burbon (Capet) and Habsburg about who should control Spain. Yes, it also abolished what remained of the kingdom of Aragon, because they sided with the losing side (Habsburgs). It was not, in any shape or form, a war for Aragonese independence or the start of the unified Spain.

Spain de facto unified back in 1469, with the marriage of Isabella of Castillie and Ferdinand of Aragon. The country remained a union of kingdoms, with Castillie (itself a union of the kingdoms of Castillie and Leon) getting the upper hand most of the time, until Castillian institutions sided with the winning side after the death of Charels II of Spain. In the ensuing war France (& friends) prevailed over Austria (& friends) and Aragonese institutions got the shaft.

It wasn't some sort of a war of unification or anything. Independent institutions were collateral damage.

McHrozni