• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dave Rogers said:
I think a lot of people have been thinking it for quite a long time. Despite the wise advice embodied in Hanlon's Razor, the level of incompetence currently on display strains credibility almost beyond breaking point.

Dave
Click to expand...

Yeah. Another thing, if you wanted to stop Brexit and excise it from British politics ... that's how you do it. No really, if she wanted to stop leaving the EU from being a major driving force in British politics there is no better way but to make it a farce to be laughed at derisively for generations to come.

The problem could be that Parliament isn't playing the game as it should. Corbyn is not interested in opposing Brexit, the voters aren't keen to trust Corbyn with tying his own shoelaces (with good reason) and Brexiteer propaganda swayed large sections of the Tory party towards a no deal Brexit, promising a free unicorn to everyone.

A genuine option is her plan backfired and badly.

McHrozni
 
catsmate said:
1. Effectively a border in the Irish Sea, not acceptable to DUP and much of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think I said as much just before the list :)

2. Which means what exactly? What replaces the backstop?
And don't munder on about magic "technological solutions"'; if these were actually possible the Brexiteers would have enumerated them and agreed to the Backstop knowing it would be a short term measure.
Click to expand...

Nothing. If the backstop is voted against by the NI on a referendum as described above, the GFA can be rendered void because it became obsolete and unnecessary. Notice it's quite harsh, 60% of votes must be to end the backstop, reunification must be on the referendum and it must be a ranked choice referendum, meaning a large consensus of NI electorate wishes a return of hard border.

This is entirely doable and democratic. It's not a simple "in or out" choice like the Brexit referendum was.

3. Again not acceptable to the DUP and CUP. Basing actions on possible future technological developments is stupid in the extreme.
Click to expand...

I was thinking more along the lines of: 80 years is long enough for major cultural shifts. It's enough for major political shifts twice over. It's obviously long enough for technological shifts too, but those may well be unnecessary by 2100. Either EU will be a functional democratic superstate or gone by then, either renders the backstop less than necessary.

McHrozni
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Imagine what a strong position a competent Labour with a good leader could be in right now...
Click to expand...

Sadly we have to just imagine :(

Jeremy Corbyn once again demonstrating that he has adopted the politics of the 6th form common room by storming out in a strop when he doesn't get his own way.

Jeremy Corbyn was swept into the Labour leadership on a tide of support from those who will be damaged most by the Brexit policies that he advocates.
 
When Corbyn was made leader I actually thought it was a hopeful sign for British politics - an actual left-winger leading the Labour party, rather than the ToryLite we've had since Blair. Sadly, I think he's done more harm than good and will ultimately move the country as a whole even further to the right.
 
a_unique_person said:
If only the Labour Party had the ability to vote themselves a better leader by opening up a challenge to his leadership.
Click to expand...

The problem is that Jeremy Corbyn would likely be reelected not least because thousands of people have left the party in disgust over his leadership - those that remain are increasingly hard-line Corbynites.
 
https://twitter.com/freeWorld2/status/1108107624808136710

German TV unfolds the whole #Brexit coup, dark money, dark adds. Whistleblower Mr. Sanni explaining how it all works.

They are also going after Banksy's money. They're at his diamond mines. Deserted!

What @carolecadwalla said.

That's what the @BBC should have done.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1108677368351260672

A German TV reporter appears at @guardian for an interview. "You're doing a whole hour on Brexit crimes?" I say. No British broadcaster has done that. "In Germany, we think this is a v important topic. It affects the entire future of Europe. People really need to know the truth."
Click to expand...
 
The Don said:
Sadly we have to just imagine :(

Jeremy Corbyn once again demonstrating that he has adopted the politics of the 6th form common room by storming out in a strop when he doesn't get his own way.

Jeremy Corbyn was swept into the Labour leadership on a tide of support from those who will be damaged most by the Brexit policies that he advocates.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Corbyn's reasons for supporting Brexit are more sound than the Tories (xenophobia). He is right. The free movement of workers has driven down wages for the UK population. It is a low-income credit driven economy. Whilst employment is now high, incomes are pathetic. People are not saving and are up to the eyeballs in debt including mortgages. When I was between jobs a few years ago, I was competing with East Europeans happy to accept low salaries (for an accountant) and I was most discombobulated having been used to employers snapping me up.

Having said that, I am a remainer. However, I do see where the Corbyn brand of Brexit is coming from.
 
Merkel has spoken this morning and said that a short delay would be possible ONLY IF the deal is accepted before the 29th (which apparently is impossible). If not, it's no deal bye bye and she asked the 27 remaining members to concentrate on the future after Brexit.
 
Vixen said:
I disagree. Corbyn's reasons for supporting Brexit are more sound than the Tories (xenophobia). He is right. The free movement of workers has driven down wages for the UK population. It is a low-income credit driven economy. Whilst employment is now high, incomes are pathetic. People are not saving and are up to the eyeballs in debt including mortgages. When I was between jobs a few years ago, I was competing with East Europeans happy to accept low salaries (for an accountant) and I was most discombobulated having been used to employers snapping me up.

Having said that, I am a remainer. However, I do see where the Corbyn brand of Brexit is coming from.
Click to expand...

As do I. The solution, of course, to a true friend of the worker is to work through the EU to achieve good conditions and comparable livable wages for all European workers. Corbyn's abandoning the workers of Europe.
 
The real battle the workers of the UK have is with the City of London, not Brussels.
Brexit will make their lives worse, not better.
 
Vixen said:
I disagree. Corbyn's reasons for supporting Brexit are more sound than the Tories (xenophobia). He is right. The free movement of workers has driven down wages for the UK population. It is a low-income credit driven economy. Whilst employment is now high, incomes are pathetic. People are not saving and are up to the eyeballs in debt including mortgages. When I was between jobs a few years ago, I was competing with East Europeans happy to accept low salaries (for an accountant) and I was most discombobulated having been used to employers snapping me up.

Having said that, I am a remainer. However, I do see where the Corbyn brand of Brexit is coming from.
Click to expand...

True. The problem is the goal to induce wage inflation in this manner is more likely to backfire than anything else. The proper approach is not to limit the inflow of the workers, it is to support labor unions, support collective barganing, legislation introducing greater worker rights (paid leave, certain expenses, etc) and so on.

Restricting immigration is the tariffs of labor. It's all fine and well until somebody decides granting visas is also an option and goes with that. Then what? You did nothing.

His reasons may be pure but his reasoning that of a rock.

McHrozni
 
catsmate said:
1. Effectively a border in the Irish Sea, not acceptable to DUP and much of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
2. Which means what exactly? What replaces the backstop?
And don't munder on about magic "technological solutions"'; if these were actually possible the Brexiteers would have enumerated them and agreed to the Backstop knowing it would be a short term measure.
3. Again not acceptable to the DUP and CUP. Basing actions on possible future technological developments is stupid in the extreme.
Click to expand...

Reconquer ireland! That is a solution to the backstop! Once Ireland stops being an independent nation it won't be part of the EU.
 
Vixen said:
I disagree. Corbyn's reasons for supporting Brexit are more sound than the Tories (xenophobia). He is right. The free movement of workers has driven down wages for the UK population. It is a low-income credit driven economy. Whilst employment is now high, incomes are pathetic. People are not saving and are up to the eyeballs in debt including mortgages. When I was between jobs a few years ago, I was competing with East Europeans happy to accept low salaries (for an accountant) and I was most discombobulated having been used to employers snapping me up.

Having said that, I am a remainer. However, I do see where the Corbyn brand of Brexit is coming from.
Click to expand...

The "immigration drives down wages" mantra is a well-worn one, but one that doesn't seem to have the level of support in the economy at large as individual anecdotes like yours would seem to suggest.


The claim: Immigration has held down wages in the UK.

Reality Check verdict: Current research suggests there was a small, negative impact on the wages of low-skilled workers, which was outweighed by other factors such as the impact of the financial crisis and rises in the minimum wage.
Click to expand...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46918729

https://assets.publishing.service.g...achment_data/file/741926/Final_EEA_report.PDF

....so while Jeremy Corbyn may claim that his desire to keep foreigners out is driven by a desire to keep British wages high, the core of it is still a mistrust of foreigners.
 
The Don said:
..so while Jeremy Corbyn may claim that his desire to keep foreigners out is driven by a desire to keep British wages high, the core of it is still a mistrust of foreigners.
Click to expand...
Corbyn is a twat. Happy to sit down with terrorists because dialogue is the best way to change people's minds and bring differing factions together* but won't discuss Brexit solutions because there is an ex-labour party member in the room#.


* I don't necessarily disagree with this
# This I do disagree with.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Merkel has spoken this morning and said that a short delay would be possible ONLY IF the deal is accepted before the 29th (which apparently is impossible). If not, it's no deal bye bye and she asked the 27 remaining members to concentrate on the future after Brexit.
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on how frightened Theresa May can make the horses and/or how effectively she can bribe the DUP and some Labour MPs.

All bar the most extreme ERG MPs could claim that they are finally supporting May's deal because the alternative is no-Brexit (not actually true but they may not want to carry the can for no-deal) which could allow the deal to squeak over the line - so long as the pay-offs are successful. Heck, she could even get more support if Labour suddenly think that their current assessment that the alternative to Theresa May's deal is a significantly delayed or cancelled Brexit is wrong and actually if Theresa May's deal fails then we're crashing out with a no-deal.
 
When I was a 10 years old kind I was wondering why de Gaulle didn't want the UK becoming member of the Common Market.

42 years later I finally understood de Gaulle reasons...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom