Cont: Brexit: Now What? 7th heaven...

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Canada isn't 100% compliant with EU regulations, and would never agree to become so.

Canada, very sensibly, wishes to be able to negotiate independent trade deals with countries outside the EU. That's what the UK wants too.

Indeed. And Canada doesn't have an open land border with the EU. So that's the first thing that will have to go. You can tell the DUP.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

So be it. We do need to get out quickly though .

Or we could stay until we work out how to leave without doing significant damage to the UK economy?

 

[ceptimus]

If the EU or Ireland want to impose a non-open border with Northern Ireland, that's up to them.

Unfortunately for your argument, both Ireland and the EU say they won't build such a border, even in the event of a no deal.

 

[ceptimus]

Or we could stay until we work out how to leave without doing significant damage to the UK economy?

No. That's pandering to remainers. Remainer tactics, from the outset, have been to delay, delay, delay until people get so fed up with the delay that they agree to remain.

Trouble is, the UK economy will continue to suffer throughout the protracted delay period.

* Fortunately, our next Prime Minister has promised to leave promptly.
* Unfortunately, our politicians have a woeful record of keeping their promises - let us hope our next PM does better.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

If the EU or Ireland want to impose a non-open border with Northern Ireland, that's up to them.

Unfortunately for your argument, both Ireland and the EU say they won't build such a border, even in the event of a no deal.

That's not really what they said at all but regardless it will still exist. And it will have to be enforced somehow.

Wishing it away won't make it so.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

No. That's pandering to remainers.

No that's pandering to common sense. You don't implement a policy that will significantly damage your economy just because you 'need to do something quickly'.

'Remainer tactics' are irrelevant since they weren't driving the bus. It was May, Bojo, Raab, Davies et all who failed to come up with a deal that the ERG would vote for remember?

 

[ceptimus]

You don't implement a policy that will significantly damage your economy

Continued delay and uncertainty is continuing to significantly damage our economy.

 

[jimbob]

If you continue to believe that economic forecasts (nearly always wrong) are more important than democracy, that's fine. There's at least one political party that has 'democrat' in its name that believes the same.

Trouble is, the UK economy will continue to suffer throughout the protracted delay period.

Firstly, that is an economic forecast. It is one I happen to agree with as far as it goes - of course, leaving would cause even worse damage, especially a chaotic (and there would be no other sort of) no-deal.

Secondly, I seem to recall you claiming that predictions of economic damage due to Brexit were project fear

 

[ceptimus]

It was May, Bojo, Raab, Davies et all who failed to come up with a deal that the ERG would vote for remember?

The Labour party, Liberal Democrats [sic], SNP, and others woudn't vote for it either.

 

[lomiller]

If the EU want to take ten years over the negotiations there's nothing we can do to stop them.

The EU doesn’t “want” trade negations to take a decade, that’s just how long these things take, and they only get done that quickly if both sided know what they are doing. A deal with the UK probably isn’t possible because the people running Brexit clearly do not know what they are doing.

The EU may judge that it's in their own best interests to be intransigent with the UK - this may be the best way to discourage other countries from wanting to leave.

Don’t confuse UK incompetence with EU intransigent. As far as I can see, the EU isn’t refusing anything that wouldn’t be refused by everyone else the UK tries to make a trade deal with. If you are not going to ask for reasonable things, don’t blame everyone else when everything you ask for is rejected.

 

[ceptimus]

Firstly, that is an economic forecast. It is one I happen to agree with as far as it goes - of course, leaving would cause even worse damage, especially a chaotic (and there would be no other sort of) no-deal.

Secondly, I seem to recall you claiming that predictions of economic damage due to Brexit were project fear

I always predicted that there would be short term damage, but benefit in the longer term. Exactly how long, 'long term' turns out to be depends on the levels of EU intransigence.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Continued delay and uncertainty is continuing to significantly damage our economy.

Which could be solved by withdrawing Art 50.

 

[ceptimus]

Which could be solved by withdrawing Art 50.

Would have a devastating effect on trust in democracy.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The Labour party, Liberal Democrats [sic], SNP, and others woudn't vote for it either.

Which wouldn't have mattered one jot if the leavers had actually voted to leave on the best terms available.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Would have a devastating effect on trust in democracy.

That ship sailed when 52% of people voted for lies promoted by fraudulent campaigning.

 

[lomiller]

If the EU or Ireland want to impose a non-open border with Northern Ireland, that's up to them.

The US, or Canada or China or Japan are not going to sign a trade deal with the UK if they don’t have some assurance the UK isn’t going to be used as a staging area or back door to get around their existing trade deals. You can’t do this without managing what comes into your country, though your ports and across your borders.

The UK is, of course free to not worry about it as long as it’s prepared to accept the consequences, which is no trade deals with anyone and potentially punitive trade restrictions from everyone.

Unfortunately for your argument, both Ireland and the EU say they won't build such a border, even in the event of a no deal.

For the reasons discussed above, I see no chance the EU doesn't implement a border.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Would have a devastating effect on trust in democracy.

hahaha

 

[jimbob]

Would have a devastating effect on trust in democracy.

Which is why I support a confirmatory referendum.

Enough information has come out to show that a lot of the claims of the Leave campaign were false that if the referendum had been binding, it would have had to have been redone, according to the Government's own lawyers.

If you are certain that it's still the will of the people, then you should support this second referendum and fell happy with the vastly-increased mandate for the particular type of Brexit on offer.

 

[ceptimus]

double post. Thread seems to be getting very slow and buggy, for me.

 

[ceptimus]

Which is why I support a confirmatory referendum.

Yes, that's been remainer (losing side) tactics ever since they lost.

Admit you lost and get over it. Once we've left, you can begin campaigning to get re-admitted, if that's still what you want.