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Brendan Eich steps down as Mozilla CEO due to his Prop 8 support

So he didn't intrude on anyone else's life except for where he donated money to a cause that intruded on other people's lives & it was just a small amount of the total that went towards intruding on other people's lives, so we should just let him live his life the way he wants to? THAT'S what you want to go with?

If so... Yes. Yes I believe that this $1000 donation was sufficient reason for him to quit his job due to pressure from others, because he thought his $1000 would be sufficient to force others to either live without a spouse or live a lie.

Let's expand on your logic here. Had he contributed $1000 to a gun control advocacy group, is he infringing on the lives of others by limiting their 2nd amendment rights? What if he donated to the NRA? Is he limiting their right to personal safety? How about anti-abortion activists and women's rights or pro-choice activists and the rights of the unborn? Is that sufficient cause to press for termination of his employment?

How many other people are OK Cupid and friends hunting down to force out of their job due to limited financial contributions? Should we make sure they're all unemployed?
 
Agreed. But then, in todays market it is really rare to not find an easy alternative that makes it possible to walk away to a competitor. In my opinion it nowdays is more a matter of willing to do it, rather than to be able to do so easily. Of course i assume that "easy" here means just that: having enough alternatives to walk to.
It's also the cost of migrating. Changing from Firefox to Chrome, for instance, would mean that you (a) have to learn the interface of Chrome, and (b) migrate your bookmarks and saved passwords. That may not be a high cost, but changing email client could be prohibitive in that there is no easy solution to migrate your mail folders.

And the second question is: how much do you like the alternative? Do you like that Google likely knows 100% of your browsing behaviour?
 
How many other people are OK Cupid and friends hunting down to force out of their job due to limited financial contributions? Should we make sure they're all unemployed?

Slow down there, Hoss. They allowed their customers to make informed decisions. Let's not pretend that torches and pitchforks were involved.
 
Twenty years ago , I and I suspect numerous others on this forum, would have disapproved of gay marriage.
People are permitted to change their mind.

If Eich was to state that he has changed his mind ( I stress this is hypothetical) would those who rejoice at his resignation relent and let him return? Or not. And if not, why not?
 
Twenty years ago , I and I suspect numerous others on this forum, would have disapproved of gay marriage.
People are permitted to change their mind.

If Eich was to state that he has changed his mind ( I stress this is hypothetical) would those who rejoice at his resignation relent and let him return? Or not. And if not, why not?

The contribution was 6 years ago. Not 20. Furthermore just a wild guess, but you would +maybe* have gotten a lot of "meh" or "don't care" but only from bigot "no definitively not!" and in my experience they aren't changing their mind in 6 years.
 
He did oppose it, and I think his political power was worth more than $1000. That said, he did have a public change of hart unlike Eich. It is an uncomfortable thought. I think both positions (bigot politician and bigot donor) are indefensible, but in 2008 there was no other choice.

What do you call that thing where you are forced to chose the lesser of two evils? Ahhh, I remember, an election.

Daredelvis

The lesser of two evils? There were more than two choices in 2008. Would you keep going back to the same ice cream parlor that only offered chocolate and vanilla?

Scratch that, because chocolate vs. vanilla is an imperfect analogy for our two parties. It's more like if I kept asking you if your favorite ice cream flavor is Kitty Litter Crunch or Roadkill Ripple. Perhaps you'd like to state a preference for mint chocolate chip. And what's more, nothing is stopping you from choosing something different. But then you'd be throwing your vote away.
 
He contributed to a cause of evil. That makes him an ally of evil. If he doesn't want to pay those consequences then he shouldn't have done it. I'm pretty sure if I plan to get a high profile job like his I wouldn't be contributing to political causes that are designed to do nothing but perpetuate misery and suffering to others for no reason. He might as well have been in favor of burning all orphans alive because **** orphans.

I don't think you could find someone who is more opposed to Prop 8 than me. I dislike everything about it and I rejoiced to see it overturned. But to call Prop 8 supporters allies of evil is ridiculous. The answer to that kind of wrongheaded intolerance isn't more wrongheaded intolerance.

1) I'm pretty sure [Obama] was never really against it.
2) Even if he was he sure doesn't hold that belief now.

So you believe that Obama cynically threw the rights of gay people under the bus to further his own political ambitions? If so then why would you vote for someone like him?
 
I don't think he "voluntarily quit". He clearly quit under pressure.


I'm not sure about US employment law, but in the UK this could be termed "constructive dismissal" - this is typically when someone resigns because it has become impossible for them to do their job per the job spec owing to factors outside their control within the company. People can and do routinely win large constructive dismissal settlements in tribunals or courts arising from these sorts of circumstances.

I think it's appropriate to consider this Mozilla case in two parts: firstly, is it reasonable for Eich to hold (or have held) this point of view? In my opinion (and, I would hope, the opinion of all enlightened people), the answer to this has to be "No".

But then secondly - and more pertinently - does Eich's tenure of this point of view constitute sufficient grounds, in and of itself, for his position to be untenable (both ethically and legally)? In my opinion, this has far from a clear-cut answer. I instinctively tend to think that no, it does not constitute sufficient grounds for termination. It's important, incidentally, to remember that a key component underpinning the answer to this question is whether Eich has brought the company (not himself, but Mozilla) into significant disrepute through his beliefs and actions in this matter. And I'd imagine that if a court were addressing this question, it would need to evaluate how much a CEO's views and actions on matters that are a) totally unrelated to the operations and business of the company, b) totally within the law, and c) hardly considered "extreme" (unfortunately) within US society can be deemed to be bringing the company into disrepute.

To use an extreme analogy (merely to illustrate the point in the clearest manner possible), suppose that the CEO of a company that sold mainly into the Chicago market declared himself an ardent Green Bay Packers fan (and harboured a strong dislike of the Bears as a consequence). It's not hard to see that this might potentially have an adverse impact upon sales in the Chicago area. But I doubt that any court would ever rule that this constituted bringing the company into disrepute (in the way that, say, the CEO declaring that his company's products were unreliable and badly-made would).

I reiterate that the example I've given above is deliberately extreme - but I believe it illustrates the underlying principle well.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Eich and his lawyers negotiated some sort of generous severance package with Mozilla such that he got a large lump sum and/or ongoing payments under the contract, plus possibly other pension benefits, and in return he would formally agree to resign and not bring any actions against Mozilla for unfair dismissal of any kind. I'd be very surprised if - under these circumstances - he agreed to simply walk away (unless there are other things we don't know about).
 
The lesser of two evils? There were more than two choices in 2008. Would you keep going back to the same ice cream parlor that only offered chocolate and vanilla?

Scratch that, because chocolate vs. vanilla is an imperfect analogy for our two parties. It's more like if I kept asking you if your favorite ice cream flavor is Kitty Litter Crunch or Roadkill Ripple. Perhaps you'd like to state a preference for mint chocolate chip. And what's more, nothing is stopping you from choosing something different. But then you'd be throwing your vote away.

Come on, you know well that there are only two candidates that have a realistic chance at getting president. And there was enough difference, from a left perspective, between Obama and McCain/Palin to speak of "the lesser of two evils", and vote for Obama rather than a third candidate who had no chance to begin with. Remember the 2000 election?
 
Come on, you know well that there are only two candidates that have a realistic chance at getting president. And there was enough difference, from a left perspective, between Obama and McCain/Palin to speak of "the lesser of two evils", and vote for Obama rather than a third candidate who had no chance to begin with. Remember the 2000 election?

I well remember the 2000 election. I voted for a third party candidate. To this day I'm glad I didn't vote for George W. Bush or Al Gore.
 
Let's expand on your logic here. Had he contributed $1000 to a gun control advocacy group, is he infringing on the lives of others by limiting their 2nd amendment rights?
Gun control no, gun ban yes.

What if he donated to the NRA? Is he limiting their right to personal safety?
Yes.

How about anti-abortion activists and women's rights or pro-choice activists and the rights of the unborn? Is that sufficient cause to press for termination of his employment?
Yes.

How many other people are OK Cupid and friends hunting down to force out of their job due to limited financial contributions?
I don't know.

Should we make sure they're all unemployed?
That would depend on what they contributed to.

Now then...
If he had made a contribution to ban interracial marriage, (like mine) should I have to keep using his product? If I don't, should I keep quiet about why I no longer use his product in order to spare him harm?
 
I well remember the 2000 election. I voted for a third party candidate. To this day I'm glad I didn't vote for George W. Bush or Al Gore.

Me, too! I have never cast a vote for either of the corporate parties (at least, not for president, anyway).
 
Now then...
If he had made a contribution to ban interracial marriage, (like mine) should I have to keep using his product? If I don't, should I keep quiet about why I no longer use his product in order to spare him harm?

I'll tell you something worse than a $1,000 donation to Prop 8: Joe Biden voted for DOMA in 1996. Did it give you pause when Barack Obama selected someone with Biden's track record of bigotry as his running mate? Is he fit to continue his post as vice president? Shouldn't Biden at least apologize for his role in getting DOMA passed into law?
 
I'll tell you something worse than a $1,000 donation to Prop 8: Joe Biden voted for DOMA in 1996. Did it give you pause when Barack Obama selected someone with Biden's track record of bigotry as his running mate? Is he fit to continue his post as vice president? Shouldn't Biden at least apologize for his role in getting DOMA passed into law?

You are under the mistaken impression all of us love "one side" because we dislike the action of the "other side".

This is a false dichotomie. We can simply dislike both side.
 
I'll tell you something worse than a $1,000 donation to Prop 8: Joe Biden voted for DOMA in 1996.
So I heard.

Did it give you pause when Barack Obama selected someone with Biden's track record of bigotry as his running mate?
Yes it did.

Is he fit to continue his post as vice president?
Yes, I think so.

Shouldn't Biden at least apologize for his role in getting DOMA passed into law?
Yes. I think so.

Now then...
If he had made a contribution to ban interracial marriage, (like mine) should I have to keep using his product? If I don't, should I keep quiet about why I no longer use his product in order to spare him harm?
 
That would depend on what they contributed to.

Now then...
If he had made a contribution to ban interracial marriage, (like mine) should I have to keep using his product? If I don't, should I keep quiet about why I no longer use his product in order to spare him harm?

You don't have to do anything. It's your right to boycott what you want, regardless of the validity of your concern. My question is, where is the line drawn? Would you support boycotting products and services of any company that employs a person that contributed $0.01 to support Prop 8? Why is his $1000 donation special enough to warrant a boycott?

ETA: Furthermore, how did this boycott further the cause of equal marriage rights or was this simply a case of revenge?
 
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You don't have to do anything. It's your right to boycott what you want, regardless of the validity of your concern. My question is, where is the line drawn? Would you support boycotting products and services of any company that employs a person that contributed $0.01 to support Prop 8? Why is his $1000 donation special enough to warrant a boycott?

ETA: Furthermore, how did this boycott further the cause of equal marriage rights or was this simply a case of revenge?

I think this boycott served to make people reconsider depriving others of their rights, and to realize just what was said here: it is not a political issues, but a fundamental one that effects a very basic right of human beings. It furthered equal marriage by making it clear to everyone that to deprive others of their basic rights is not acceptable in our society. Disgusting actions have their consequences.

Frankly, I don't care if he gave a penny or a million dollars: it was his belief that was wrong, not his money per se. If he changed his mind and/or apologized, I might feel otherwise. But to my knowledge he appears to still feel the same as he did when he made the contribution.

This is equivalent to me boycotting a company that advances a KKK member to CEO. Should I support a racist or an antisemite with my money? I thought that it is well established in the USA that I can use my money to influence much more minor political goals. Should I support a company that calls me slime due to my orientation or religion? Should I support a company where the CEO advocates human slavery by giving a penny to a pro-slavery group?
 
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Now then...
If he had made a contribution to ban interracial marriage, (like mine) should I have to keep using his product? If I don't, should I keep quiet about why I no longer use his product in order to spare him harm?

No, you shouldn't keep using his products.

By the way, did you know that Brendan Eich is the creator of Javascript? So his invention is part of just about every website, including this one. I'll be sad to see you renounce your participation in the forum and the rest of the internet, but boycotting Eich is clearly the principled thing to do. It's been nice chatting with you!
 
Is there any other way to get the job done? If not, then we're stuck with the stuff.
A valid idea of is a valid idea. We use tactics, invented by really bad people in the 1930's, to minimize our own battle casualties today. ..
 
No, you shouldn't keep using his products.

By the way, did you know that Brendan Eich is the creator of Javascript? So his invention is part of just about every website, including this one. I'll be sad to see you renounce your participation in the forum and the rest of the internet, but boycotting Eich is clearly the principled thing to do. It's been nice chatting with you!

Is Eich getting royalties everytime Redtail hits the "Submit Reply" button?

No? Then I don't see why it matters.
 

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