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brain/mind

DavidSmith said:
As an aside, this thread is titled "brain/mind", and it should be noted that, these days, "mind" is usually acknowledged as physically defined even by those who say that non-physical aspects of consciousness exist.
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What do these people mean when they say this sort of thing?

~~ Paul
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
What do these people mean when they say this sort of thing?

~~ Paul
Click to expand...

Good question! People refer to different things when they use the term "the mind". These days, I think almost all people who are versed in either psychology/neuroscience or philosophy recognise that they are refering to cognitive processes when they use the term "the mind". That is, the mind is defined physically by virtue of refering to a process, eg memory of objects, or attention to features.

If I say that non-physical aspects of consciousness exist, I find that I can't use language to express what that means, other than say what it is not (ie non-physical or non-relational). I don't know why that should be. Yet such an existence is present.
 
davidsmith73 said:
Good question! People refer to different things when they use the term "the mind". These days, I think almost all people who are versed in either psychology/neuroscience or philosophy recognise that they are refering to cognitive processes when they use the term "the mind". That is, the mind is defined physically by virtue of refering to a process, eg memory of objects, or attention to features.

If I say that non-physical aspects of consciousness exist, I find that I can't use language to express what that means, other than say what it is not (ie non-physical or non-relational). I don't know why that should be. Yet such an existence is present.
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I have to disagree when you say "almost all". Behavior analysts like Mercutio and me would disagree. And there are a lot of us around.
 
I said "almost all people...when they use the term"

Why wouldn't you use the term "cognitive process"?
 
Because it implies mentalism. We already have perfectly good terms that are behaviorally defined, like "recall" and "problem solving".
Yesterday I spent a whole class discussing the Wason selection task and the problems with confirmation bias without ever uttering the word "cognitive".
 
maatorc said:
1... Physics is existential, dealing with phenomena, and not ontological.
2... Energy, also, is existential, dealing with phenomena, and not ontological.
3... What ontology, exactly, have I put forward? If you can identify the alleged ontology, explain in what manner it does not have any merit.
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The ontology of mind vs. matter. In materialism it is assumed that mind is a dependant property of matter, in that a complex organization of matter can generate the effect of mind.

In immatterialism the underlying substrate of matter is considered to be mind as opposed to matter and all things are made or bits of mind. Matter is a dependant proprty of mind.

So it is ontological.
 
Jeff Corey said:
Because it implies mentalism. We already have perfectly good terms that are behaviorally defined, like "recall" and "problem solving".
Yesterday I spent a whole class discussing the Wason selection task and the problems with confirmation bias without ever uttering the word "cognitive".
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Fair enough, if that is your approach.

How about:

"These days, I think almost all people who are versed in either psychology/neuroscience or philosophy recognise that they are refering to cognitive or behavioural processes when they or someone else uses the term "the mind"."

Either way, a physical process is being refered to. My point was to highlight that those who try to argue for a non-physical aspect to consciousness can still agree that the mind is physical.
 
Jeff Corey said:
Because it implies mentalism. We already have perfectly good terms that are behaviorally defined, like "recall" and "problem solving".
Yesterday I spent a whole class discussing the Wason selection task and the problems with confirmation bias without ever uttering the word "cognitive".
Click to expand...

Fair enough, if that is your approach.

How about:

"These days, I think almost all people who are versed in either psychology/neuroscience or philosophy recognise that they are refering to cognitive or behavioural processes when they or someone else uses the term "the mind"."

Either way, a physical process is being refered to. My point was to highlight that those who try to argue for a non-physical aspect to consciousness can still agree that the mind is physical.
 
I agree,

All of those electrochemical reactions in that grey matter make up our mind/conciousness.

Once we are brain dead we lose our conciousness and am not aware of any evidence which shows otherwise.

A good theoretical example. If one opened up my head and began to remove brain matter cell by cell I would slowly lose my conciousness/self awareness.

When someone is turned into a vedgetable in a car accident we don`t say, "thats OK, he`s brain dead ,but he still has his conciousness"
 
Davo said:
I agree,

All of those electrochemical reactions in that grey matter make up our mind/conciousness.

Once we are brain dead we lose our conciousness and am not aware of any evidence which shows otherwise.

A good theoretical example. If one opened up my head and began to remove brain matter cell by cell I would slowly lose my conciousness/self awareness.

When someone is turned into a vedgetable in a car accident we don`t say, "thats OK, he`s brain dead ,but he still has his conciousness"
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Exactly. It's not like the demented or blind or brain-damaged have their "souls" stepping in to do the job once the brain and or the connecting sensory devices are "off line".
 
maatorc said:
Do not let her deceptive rhetoric trap you. She needs to attack you, and ascribe to you all her hangups on a wide range of topics. What really disconcerts her is that she does not really have the foggiest clue where I am coming from, and this infuriates her. And notice how she, as is her habit, has flooded the thread with six consecutive posts: Be warned!
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So weird that another subunit of a universal energy-mind-work-motion-yadda-yadda-yadda would resort to such shameful behavior!!! Have you informed her that she's basically part and parcel of whatever claptrap master intelligence you represent? If so, I have no doubt that articulett will be "corrected" by said universal overlord so you need not worry. :rolleyes:
 
Slimething said:
So weird that another subunit of a universal energy-mind-work-motion-yadda-yadda-yadda would resort to such shameful behavior!!! Have you informed her that she's basically part and parcel of whatever claptrap master intelligence you represent? If so, I have no doubt that articulett will be "corrected" by said universal overlord so you need not worry. :rolleyes:
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There-There, thats a good boy. Do you feel better now?
 
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos said:
1... So why do we need the idea of a universal mind at all?
2... And why doesn't it show up outside of our brains? Somewhere, anywhere. Not even in the math.~~ Paul
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1... Because our minds are our true identity, called by many names, which are unseparated component-aspects of the one universal mind. Your mind is what you are, your body is what you are in.
2... Mind does not possess characteristics of place or time, and cannot be identified as being any 'where'. As to the math, I expect that in due course there will be developed a mathematics of mind.
 
maatorc said:
1... Because our minds are our true identity, called by many names, which are unseparated component-aspects of the one universal mind. Your mind is what you are, your body is what you are in.
2... Mind does not possess characteristics of place or time, and cannot be identified as being any 'where'. As to the math, I expect that in due course there will be developed a mathematics of mind.
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That's just an illusion provided to us by evolution to make us think we are 'special'. It helps us survive and fight for what is beneficial to us. Our consciousness is an illusion to create the sense of self and self-importance.

It's really a process of our biology, just as walking is an interaction of the brain and leg muscles as well as lots of other organs such as the inner ear. Consciousness is the interaction between the brain and sensory organs.
 
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