brain/mind

[latent aaaack]

That's nothing to do with consciousness. Computers can process complex commands, it doesn't make them conscious.

What is your definition of consciousness then?

Furthermore if different parts of this woman's emotional self really were split into two centers of emotion that couldn't communicate with eachother, with only one emotional self occurring in the part of the brain that controls language how would we even know? One way to test it would be to show one side of the brain (via the retina method in the article) pictures that are depressing and the other pictures that are cheerful and then instruct the patient to indicate with each of their hands whether the pics made them feel happy or sad.

What I read before didn't give me an idea of what region of the brain emotion and personality are in and if that part of you can be bisected by the corpus callosum being cut but what I just read indicates to me that it does. Example:

At times, particularly in patients who have sustained damage to the corpus callosum that connects the two cerebral hemispheres (see also split-brain), the hands appear to be acting in opposition to each other. For example, one patient was observed putting a cigarette into her mouth with her intact, 'controlled' hand (her right, dominant hand), following which her alien, non-dominant, left hand came up to grasp the cigarette, pull the cigarette out of her mouth, and toss it away before it could be lit by the controlled, dominant, right hand. The patient then surmised that "I guess 'he' doesn't want me to smoke that cigarette".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/emotion (where it describes different regions of brain)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_hand_syndrome (where that anecdote is from)

 

[zombiebex]

This is a fascinating thread. Talking about things I'd sort of came to a conclusion about in my own mind as far as consciousness, the mind, the "soul," but you're really opening me up to a lot more.

And I do remember seeing some medical show (with Mandy Patankin. No idea what it was called) with a woman who has separated brain hemispheres. She was also pregnant and with a brain tumor to add to the drama. One side of her brain wanted to keep the baby and risk dying from her cancer. The other half of the brain didn't want the baby and wanted to live, and half of her body kept trying to kill the baby.

Wild, wacky stuff.

Going to need to check these books out.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

What, in your view, is mind?
If mind does not describe anything useful, what is it that enables you to hypothesise about the nature of mind?

‘mind’ is a label for the information processing that occurs in a brain. Alter the processing in the brain and the ‘mind’ changes.

I have a feeling you’re not going to be happy with that definition

 

[cyborg]

The brain is the substrate, the mind is an active process running in that substrate.

 

[Yahzi]

We are never conscious; we just remember being conscious. We exist 40 ms in the past...

 

[maatorc]

We are never conscious; we just remember being conscious. We exist 40 ms in the past...

Is memory a conscious state? If not, what is it?

 

[davidsmith73]

The brain is the substrate, the mind is an active process running in that substrate.

What is the relationship between the brain and mind, as you've defined them here? Why would the active process that = mind need a "substrate". It seems to me that the active process is the same thing as the substrate.

 

[maatorc]

‘mind’ is a label for the information processing that occurs in a brain. Alter the processing in the brain and the ‘mind’ changes.I have a feeling you’re not going to be happy with that definition

I take it that to you mind is strictly a brain function.
I see mind as a natural universal energy independently existent from but integrated with material structures such as the human brain: The nature of the structure determines the nature of the interaction.
And, in passing, this has no so-called spiritual, philosophical, or religious connotations whatever. Universal mind is a natural force with no reliance whatever on human belief systems which are but functions of its' interaction with the almost infinitely complex human brain.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I see mind as a natural universal energy independently existent from but integrated with material structures such as the human brain: The nature of the structure determines the nature of the interaction.

So is mind like a fifth force? Can you locate it outside the brain? If not, what is the purpose of proposing its existence?

~~ Paul

 

[Jeff Corey]

I take it that to you mind is strictly a brain function.
I see mind as a natural universal energy independently existent from but integrated with material structures such as the human brain: The nature of the structure determines the nature of the interaction.
And, in passing, this has no so-called spiritual, philosophical, or religious connotations whatever. Universal mind is a natural force with no reliance whatever on human belief systems which are but functions of its' interaction with the almost infinitely complex human brain.

Nonsense. No such thing. No ghost either in or out of the machine.

 

[maatorc]

So is mind like a fifth force? Can you locate it outside the brain? If not, what is the purpose of proposing its existence?~~ Paul

There is no absolute agreement about the 4 forces, so the question is not the right one. For example, although we can see something called gravity in action, where exactly is it? Mind is indestinguishable from energy. It is everything and in everything. Mind and matter are energy in action. Some forms of energy are called material or phenomenal, while other forms of energy are called immaterial or noumenal.

 

[maatorc]

Nonsense. No such thing. No ghost either in or out of the machine.

This is the same as saying that matter gives rise to the energy spectrum from which it comes! Energy is definitelty not a ghost, it underlies everything we can or cannot know, including whatever you mean by 'ghost'.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

There is no absolute agreement about the 4 forces, so the question is not the right one. For example, although we can see something called gravity in action, where exactly is it? Mind is indestinguishable from energy. It is everything and in everything. Mind and matter are energy in action. Some forms of energy are called material or phenomenal, while other forms of energy are called immaterial or noumenal.

I'm sorry, but I call gibberish. You are stringing together mind, matter, and energy with various words in between that make grammatically correct sentences but do not mean anything.

Which portions of the mathematical equations that describe the universe address the laws of mind?

~~ Paul

 

[Jeff Corey]

This is the same as saying that matter gives rise to the energy spectrum from which it comes!...

Not it's not. What a strange idea.

 

[maatorc]

I'm sorry, but I call gibberish. You are stringing together mind, matter, and energy with various words in between that make grammatically correct sentences but do not mean anything.
Which portions of the mathematical equations that describe the universe address the laws of mind?~~ Paul

I mean that mind IS energy, the particle-wave-vibrations-oscillations of which underly ALL phenomena and noumena.

 

[Causality]

We are never conscious; we just remember being conscious. We exist 40 ms in the past...

That's partly right IMHO. More and more is being discovered about our subconscious mind vs. our conscious mind. Intuition is an example of subconscious mental activity. Michael Shermer used that as an example of something he previously considered Woo but has been convinced there's something to it.

One thing that surprised me was a study that showed, I think using PET scans, that in an active verbal conversation, we reply to what the other person said before it registers in our conscious mind. That's a good example of what goes on before it filters up to the conscious level.

On the other hand, there are other activities that are totally done at the conscious level from the start.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I mean that mind IS energy, the particle-wave-vibrations-oscillations of which underly ALL phenomena and noumena.

So when I turn on a light, a stream of electromanetic mind emanates from the bulb? What is it thinking?

Come on, don't you see that your sentence sounds cool, but is meaningless? Scientists have studied the hell out of electromagnetic energy, and have yet to notice mind within it. The equations that describe electromagnetic energy don't include any that describe mind.

If it turns out that mind is not in energy, what would change? What difference would it make?

~~ Paul

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

One thing that surprised me was a study that showed, I think using PET scans, that in an active verbal conversation, we reply to what the other person said before it registers in our conscious mind. That's a good example of what goes on before it filters up to the conscious level.

I believe that is why Yahzi said that we exist 40 ms. in the past.

~~ Paul

 

[Dr B]

Billy,

• The brain is what the mind does.

Actually, the classic quote is the other way around - the mind is what the brain does......

 

[cyborg]

What is the relationship between the brain and mind, as you've defined them here? Why would the active process that = mind need a "substrate". It seems to me that the active process is the same thing as the substrate.

All minds require a brain but not all brains have a mind.

I do not think one could argue that offal has a mind.