• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Boy Scouts and Atheism

Silicon said:
When I was a boy, I was in the Cub Scouts. I wasn't religious as a child, but I did subscribe to a sort of non-denominational personal deism.

Kinda your general, all-purpose california beach bum, all religions are equal ways to understand God, type of belief.

Well, my Cub Scout Den was all Mormon. I didn't understand that about it, really. I was introduced to it by my babysitter's kids (are all babysitters Mormon?!!?)

There was the requirement of the oath, that was not a problem, as I did believe in a God.

Even now, as an athiest, I have no problem with a certain amount of cerimonial deism.

But there was a certain.... groupthink... about a den where EVERYONE was Mormon. God wasn't just invoked in the pledge. He was everpresent. And not just anyone's God, it was really the God of Moroni and Brigham Young.

And as among all Christian groups I know, there was a certain amount of prostheletizing. A whole bunch of... "Well Billy, I sure had fun with you today building Pinewood Derby Cars. Say, how about we have MORE fun joining up this Sunday!"

At least then, when I was a boy, Scouting was about getting boys to go to church. And churches ran Scouting as a kind of weekday outreach for recruiting new ones to the faith.

The idea of hooking kids on religion once they are out of site of their parents is really icky to me.

Call me crazy.
Click to expand...

OK, I call you crazy. :roll:
 
Tony said:
Yeah, its horrible that private organizations get to make their own rules. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I think it's horrible for discriminatory organizations to get my tax money. And I get pressure at work to contribute to United Way, whick still supports the BSA.
I tell them to take a hike.
 
I think it's utterly detestable that the BSA doesn't accept homosexuals or atheists, but I'm not about to favor legislation that forces them to. The best solution is to boycott the boy scouts and start a scouting organization that doesn't discriminate. If I didn't find camping equally detestable, I'd do it myself. Sleeping outside is gross.
 
I think it's utterly detestable that the BSA doesn't accept homosexuals or atheists, but I'm not about to favor legislation that forces them to.
Click to expand...

I'm not either but i wouldn't want my tax money to support a discriminating organisation like that. They can do what they want to FOR THEIR OWN MONEY. If they want public money, use of public facilities, scools etc. they would have to remove the discriminating laws. I mean, what's next? Ku Klux Klan rallies on the scool? Nazi meetings in the Library?

The best solution is to boycott the boy scouts and start a scouting organization that doesn't discriminate. If I didn't find camping equally detestable, I'd do it myself. Sleeping outside is gross.
Click to expand...

There is such organisations at least over here. I was a member of one (well still are i think) and did a lot of sleeping out in tents and was on some large camps here in Denmark and in Norway it was really really fun. Also being a non religious organisation we didn't have boy and girl separation so for a teenager it was a great place to discover the facts of life.;)
 
Ove said:


I'm not either but i wouldn't want my tax money to support a discriminating organisation like that. They can do what they want to FOR THEIR OWN MONEY. If they want public money, use of public facilities, scools etc. they would have to remove the discriminating laws. I mean, what's next? Ku Klux Klan rallies on the scool? Nazi meetings in the Library?
Click to expand...

Why shouldnt the KKK and simular groups be allowed to use public spaces?

According to the constitution, they have just as much right to be there as you or I. Free speech extends to all voices, no matter how racist or disciminatory.
 
Lothian said:
Providing they are not committing a crime (incitement to cause racial violence ?)
Click to expand...

That falls under freedom of speech.

The point is that any discriminatory organisation should not in my opinion receive public funding, even if it is the MCC.

MCC?
 
Why shouldnt the KKK and simular groups be allowed to use public spaces?
Click to expand...

Not if those public spaces are paid for and maintained with tax money.

According to the constitution, they have just as much right to be there as you or I. Free speech extends to all voices, no matter how racist or disciminatory.
Click to expand...

True but you (IMHO) have to do so for your own money. Public funding should not be used to support any form of discrimination.
 
Ove said:


Not if those public spaces are paid for and maintained with tax money.
Click to expand...

That doesnt answer the question, Why shouldnt the KKK and similar groups be allow to use public spaces? Free speech is free speech.
 
Hey you ^#&&$# goshdarned $&@(#&@ ***beeeep****

Can hardly be called free speech. Plotting to harm others can land you in jail. Providing a public place for this to happen is unethical, especially if tax money is used.
 
I've been involved with Canadian Scouting for the last 12 years (since I was a Beaver at age 5). Luckily, I was enrolled in one of the more secular groups in my city. Rather than meeting in a church like some other groups, we met in my elementry school gym. A few years ago when I applied for my Chief Scout's Award(similar to Eagle Scout), I had all the requirements done except for one, and that was to have a Religion in Life Emblem .(this could be attained by fulfilling certain requirements set by the religion I would have been in). All the leaders knew I was atheist, but also knew I had worked for the past 3 years on getting my chief scout, so instead I wrote a report on some of the major religions and their effects on world relationships.

Scouts Canada has not made any announcements regarding atheism, it appears that they are just trying to sweep the issue out and let the individual groups deal with it
 
That doesnt answer the question, Why shouldnt the KKK and similar groups be allow to use public spaces? Free speech is free speech.
Click to expand...

No it isn't ......there is such a thing as responsibility, but i'm not talking about banning them from appearing in public as you seem to imply, i'm talking about banning them from borrowing classrooms in the evening to hold meetings, or having club houses funded by tax money (as many boy scouts have).
 
Ove said:

but i'm not talking about banning them from appearing in public as you seem to imply, i'm talking about banning them from borrowing classrooms in the evening to hold meetings, or having club houses funded by tax money (as many boy scouts have).
Click to expand...

So why should they be allowed to use a public space (such as a square or the front of a goverment building), but not a school?
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Hey you ^#&&$# goshdarned $&@(#&@ ***beeeep****

Can hardly be called free speech.
Click to expand...

Then how come you were just allowed to type it?

Plotting to harm others can land you in jail. Providing a public place for this to happen is unethical, especially if tax money is used.

You would have to provide evidence that they were plotting to harm others. Innocent until proven guilty.
 
So why should they be allowed to use a public space (such as a square or the front of a goverment building), but not a school?
Click to expand...

Sorry but this discussion is turning silly. You obviously don't understand my point of wiew, fine, let's keep it there. I could try to explain to you that in a scool they would be taking up space that could be used by sensible organisations and they would use power, -janitor time,- cleaning etc. but .................
 
Ove said:


Sorry but this discussion is turning silly. You obviously don't understand my point of wiew, fine, let's keep it there. I could try to explain to you that in a scool they would be taking up space that could be used by sensible organisations and they would use power, -janitor time,- cleaning etc. but .................
Click to expand...


That was an honest question.
 
Ok, i'll give an honest answer. I don't like those people but i respect their right to existas long as they don't cause any harm. Over here scools are widely used by a lot of organisations in the evening for adult education - practising music - meetings of various organisations etc. Under some laws you can apply for the use of such localities, one of the orchestra's i play in borrow the music room on a scool for practice f.inst. All our scools are widely used to that in the evenings.

All this is paid for by tax money, the rooms are maintained - cleaned - etc and organisations can borrow them for free. Organisations like KKK or Neo Nazi's or such cannot because of the nature of their doings and it suits me fine to know that my tax money is not used to support such guys.

When you say public places such as town squares etc. it is different because they don't demand any extra care/electricity/cleaning for them to hold their rallies so it is cost free. That is the distinction i make.

In short: They may have whatever opinions they like as long as they don't use public money to distribute those ideas.
 
Tony said:


Then how come you were just allowed to type it?

Plotting to harm others can land you in jail. Providing a public place for this to happen is unethical, especially if tax money is used.

You would have to provide evidence that they were plotting to harm others. Innocent until proven guilty.
Click to expand...


I didn't type it, those aren't actual words. I don't want to get banned! That's my point. Don't you ever get it?
Yeah, if you're caught plotting against others, it can land you in jail. That's my point too. So allowing that horse manure to go on in those places like schools is ridiculous.

They can keep their crap opinions to themselves if they can't afford to group together anywhere else. They can always go on the Net. I've seen lots of that, and I don't have to pay for it. I can also post my opinions on their forums. I hardly will go to a gathering of them in a school gym and tell them what I think. Can we say marked for death?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom