Merged Boston Marathon CTs

[The Platypus]

The ACLU took a rather comprehensive look at that question:
https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/acalltocourage.pdf

Not really... This is just another of the many critiques of the Patriot Act and doesn't answer my question at all. I want to know what specifically can't you do now that you could before, which rights exactly have you lost. Like i said, noone ever answers this.

Paranoid delusional people who love to pretend we live in all this state tyranny and we are losing all kinds of rights left and right have their heads full of bull. The Patriot Act excuse is just a bunch of whining over the government scanning some cellphones and emails, and such, in an attempt to flush out terrorists. Big deal. This is the same public that tells the world everytime they take a crap on twitter nowadays, crying and pretending they have no right to privacy anymore.

9/11 happened, the US gov't was trying to do something to look like it could protect the country. It might not have worked perfectly or been worded perfectly, because the government rarely does get anything right, but it wasn't a plot to steal everyone's rights. Nor has anyone lost any rights. Let's get real.

 

[wollclark]

We've lost the right to trial if we're merely suspected as terrorists. I'd say that's a pretty big right to lose.

The Patriot Act excuse is just a bunch of whining over the government scanning some cellphones and emails, and such, in an attempt to flush out terrorists.

Yeah, who needs the fourth amendment? The courts are just pesky, meaningless hurdles.

This is the same public that tells the world everytime they take a crap on twitter nowadays, crying they have no right to privacy anymore...

Some people use Twitter, so they obviously don't want any privacy.

 

[Call Me Crazy But]

Regarding Cluesforum

When I discovered this site, I at first used to enjoy lurking on the anti-Apollo section and enjoyed the fact that people actually believed that all space flight is impossible, especially the fact that rockets can't work in a vacuum. I used to think that these people were naïve and ignorant but essentially harmless.

I didn't in the past delve past the space conspiracy section but having followed a link to the Boston atrocity I now actually feel depressed that these people can not only show the images they do but also post the comments that their fevered imagination cause them to. I now somehow feel dirty for viewing their postings and visiting this site.

 

[Praktik]

Not really... This is just another of the many critics of the Patriot Act. I want to know what specifically can't you do now that you could before, which rights exactly have you lost. Like i said, noone ever answers this.

Paranoid delusional people who love to pretend we live in all this state tyranny and we are losing all kinds of rights left and right have their heads full of bull. The Patriot Act excuse is just a bunch of whining over the government scanning some cellphones and emails, and such, in an attempt to flush out terrorists. Big deal. This is the same public that tells the world everytime they take a crap on twitter nowadays, crying they have no right to privacy anymore...

9/11 happened, the US gov't was trying to do something to look like it could protect the country. It might not have worked perfectly or been worded perfectly, because the government rarely does get anything right, but it wasn't a plot to steal all our rights. Nor have we lost any rights. Let's get real.

I think one of the main issues is that when there is a solid wall of secrecy - we don't end up with NWO martial law, but maybe we end up with a Richard Nixon or a Daily Mail scandal.

The way its looking now is we're gonna need another Church committee within a decade or so...

My fears are more about the huge potential for corruption when the American public still doesn' know the exact extent to which their communications are monitored.

Maybe we'll see political opposition targeted or more tawdry petraeus type scandals as the human beings running the computers operate with impunity behind an opaque bureaucracy and human weakness once again shows its face.

This is part of the slippery nature of CT theory, it wouldn't be half so successful if it wasn't for the kernels of truth luring in the customers...

 

[Praktik]

I now somehow feel dirty for viewing their postings and visiting this site.

Heal thyself.

Welcome to the human condition.

 

[Call Me Crazy But]

Before anyone says anything, when I say this site I am obviously referring to cluesforum, not 'this site'

 

[dudalb]

Not really... This is just another of the many critiques of the Patriot Act and doesn't answer my question at all. I want to know what specifically can't you do now that you could before, which rights exactly have you lost. Like i said, noone ever answers this.

Paranoid delusional people who love to pretend we live in all this state tyranny and we are losing all kinds of rights left and right have their heads full of bull. The Patriot Act excuse is just a bunch of whining over the government scanning some cellphones and emails, and such, in an attempt to flush out terrorists. Big deal. This is the same public that tells the world everytime they take a crap on twitter nowadays, crying and pretending they have no right to privacy anymore.

9/11 happened, the US gov't was trying to do something to look like it could protect the country. It might not have worked perfectly or been worded perfectly, because the government rarely does get anything right, but it wasn't a plot to steal everyone's rights. Nor has anyone lost any rights. Let's get real.

And I note the ACLU document mixes legitimate Civil Liberties issues with Left Wing political harangues....one reason why,although a strong supporter of Civil Liberties, I don't support the ACLU.

 

[The Platypus]

We've lost the right to trial if we're merely suspected as terrorists. I'd say that's a pretty big right to lose.



Yeah, who needs the fourth amendment? The courts are just pesky, meaningless hurdles.



Some people use Twitter, so they obviously don't want any privacy.

Even if what you said here is correct, it isn't, but even if it was, everyone has not lost a right there, you are upset because terrorists have lost rights... Do you plan on doing some activities that would make someone suspect you were a terrorist and now you can't.... poor you...

 

[beachnut]

CTers recite that alot but never tell, what freedoms have you lost? None... Is there a conspiracy cult catch phrase that you don't recite?

The ACLU took a rather comprehensive look at that question:
https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/acalltocourage.pdf[/quote]

Cters never list the freedoms they lost. Do you stand behind the ACLU paper? Is it factual, is it right?

Where is the list?

A cross-country coach is the expert on telling the different between normal police K-9's patrolling a crowded international sporting event, and bomb-sniffing dogs?
...

Why would they not be bomb dogs? I can't think of any other dog needed with an event that large, unless you are after drugs. What other dogs are there? Maybe the cross-country coach planted the bombs, could not get to the start line or finish line with his bombs because of the dogs. The FBI will be talking to him? He sounded English; did he do it for patriot day?

Bin Laden/Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (depending on the government version of the day who was the real mastermind) bought the tickets for the hijackers on his personal credit card?

I thought you were implying no one could know it was 19 on 911 - but I said it was easy. No need to bring out your fantasy 911 stuff, it has been debunked by Flight 93 passengers on 911.
Source? Who was the mastermind in your fantasy? Not sure idiots who thought up 911 were masterminds; UBL is dead - master-nut, is a better term.

The 19 who did 911 directly were known before they did it - they are on the passenger manifests, 9 of them have DNA on record after 911 from the aircraft impacts. Flight 93 Passengers figured out 911 in minutes, not surprised the FBI was able to name the 19 nuts in hours. They had help, a crew member gave seat positions for some of the terrorists. Big clues for 911.

The point is no easy clues for this bombing. It could be next year before they have a suspect, a viable one. It could take 7 years before they catch him/her/them. Not like 911 when the nuts take care of the trial and execution for us by leaving a ton evidence and killing themselves.

It was immediately obvious UBL was a suspect on 911; anyone who was alive from 96 to 2001 knew UBL promised what we saw on 911. And it was completely clear who on the planes did it, some were named before the first impact. The evidence speaks for itself.
This bombing has no suspect yet - On 911 there was a suspect at the second impact. I know UBL just sits and talks, but he was a suspect - and guess what...

Anyway, no big clue, no suspect yet for this; anyone?

DesLauriers said the investigation is in its infancy and "at this time there are no claims of responsibility. The range of suspects and motives remains wide open."

 

[The Platypus]

And I note the ACLU document mixes legitimate Civil Liberties issues with Left Wing political harangues....one reason why,although a strong supporter of Civil Liberties, I don't support the ACLU.

Yes i was going to add in something like that too, the source, the ACLU, does have it's biases.

 

[beachnut]

"...you are upset because terrorists have lost rights..."

I'm upset because people like you are perfectly willing to give up your rights out of cowardice. I'd rather face the risk of being blown up myself, than giving up my rights guaranteed by the constitution.

"Do you plan on doing some activities that would make someone suspect you were a terrorist and now you can't.... poor you..."

If I have concerns of my rights being eroded, it obviously means I'm an evil terrorist out to do no good. Why care about my rights if I'm not planning anything, eh?

Edited by LashL: 

Removed quote of moderated content.

Do you have a list of your rights which were eroded. Where is the list?
The ACLU stuff did not have a list.

I like the seatbelt law, and airbags usually work ; those are lost rights, now we have to wear seat-belts. We use to run around the car, dropping pennies though the rusty floor... now we are stuck, in a seatbelt. If you take off your seatbelt you go directly to FEMA camps, do not stop at go. Waterboarding at 8.

 

[phiwum]

Even if what you said here is correct, it isn't, but even if it was, everyone has not lost a right there, you are upset because terrorists have lost rights... Do you plan on doing some activities that would make someone suspect you were a terrorist and now you can't.... poor you...

With due respect, expanded government surveillance of U.S. citizens does mean that rights have been lost. You may think that it's a reasonable tradeoff (I'm not certain that it is), but there's no doubt that the Patriot Act has taken away certain rights.

We can discuss precisely what bits have somewhat eroded rights, but this is rather off-topic here.

But I think we should all be careful of any response that enhanced surveillance shouldn't bother you unless you're a bad guy.

 

[jhunter1163]

Thread closed for cleanout. Do not attempt to restart this discussion elsewhere.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

 

[jhunter1163]

Thread reopened. Do not personalize your arguments, and remain civil and polite.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

 

[LSSBB]

The latest CT bit: evidently on Family Guy 3 weeks ago Peter Griffin "accidentally" blew up a bomb at the Boston Marathon.

 

[The Platypus]

The latest CT bit: evidently on Family Guy 3 weeks ago Peter Griffin "accidentally" blew up a bomb at the Boston Marathon.

I've seen that, they take two clips from family guy that aren't related and put them together to make it look like that. As usual, it's fabricated BS.

 

[smartcooky]

The CTs that have been broached here have been broached elsewhere by people who believe it.

The world that the CTs believe in doesn't exist, but plenty of them believe it does, and some of them believe it to extremes. There are even some morons out there who claim that this event didn't happen, which puts them up there with no-planers in the no-brain department.

You clearly have paid as little attention to conspiracy forums as the other areas in which you falsely claim expertise.

There is only a very small difference between CTer's who post in online forums about their belief that the "techno-industrial complex and world Governments are in cahoots to oppress the people of the world, and people like Ted Kaczinsky who believed the same as you average forumer but killed people with bombs to make his point.

That difference is a matter of degrees...

...degrees of how badly ********** up their brain wiring is, leading to...

...degrees of how far they are prepared to go to make their point.

 

[The Platypus]

With due respect, expanded government surveillance of U.S. citizens does mean that rights have been lost. You may think that it's a reasonable tradeoff (I'm not certain that it is), but there's no doubt that the Patriot Act has taken away certain rights.

We can discuss precisely what bits have somewhat eroded rights, but this is rather off-topic here.

But I think we should all be careful of any response that enhanced surveillance shouldn't bother you unless you're a bad guy.

Most of you guys are not getting it. I'm no legal expert, but I don't doubt that the Patriot Act has flaws, I have no doubt it is flawed, that it's written badly and even that it's probably overreaching.

But i do not believe that it's a conspiracy to "take everyone's rights away". Nor do i think that people are so robbed of all kinds of rights and freedoms due to the minor trivial problems with the patriot act, that it supports people running around reciting these "oh the tyranny" melodramatic catch phrases. Especially when they can't even list what rights we have lost.

 

[phiwum]

Most of you guys are not getting it. I'm no legal expert, but I don't doubt that the Patriot Act has flaws, I have no doubt it is flawed, that it's written badly and even that it's probably overreaching.

But i do not believe that it's a conspiracy to "take everyone's rights away". Nor do i think that people are so robbed of all kinds of rights and freedoms due to the minor trivial problems with the patriot act, that it supports people running around reciting these "oh the tyranny" melodramatic catch phrases. Especially when they can't even list what rights we have lost.

I certainly don't believe there's any such conspiracy either, but I was reacting to what you wrote:

Even if what you said here is correct, it isn't, but even if it was, everyone has not lost a right there, you are upset because terrorists have lost rights... Do you plan on doing some activities that would make someone suspect you were a terrorist and now you can't.... poor you...

We should all be concerned when the government increases legal surveillance of U.S. citizens, and you seemed to suggest that these laws adversely affect only terrorists. That strikes me as a dangerous attitude.

In any case, let's leave it here, then.

 

[The Platypus]

Oh the tyranny, the rights they keep "eroding", says the people living in houses, on $1000 computers, Ipads and smartphones, fattened on Mcdonalds and Pizza Hut, posting anything they want on their highspeed internet.

Let's be real things are not as bad as those that say such things are trying to make it out to be.