Bortz predicts soaring gas prices and bashes Senior Citizens

[Muldur]

Today's radio broadcast (Jan 2, I don't know if it was a "new" program or a rebroadcast) contained this little gem.

After predicting that motorists will be spending $100 a week on gas "if you even have a job" within 18 months if Obama is re-elected, Bortz went on to point out that "it can happen" citing polls that indicate Obama is leading in Florida as an example.

He then went on to explain the reason he felt Obama was leading in the poll:

Because you old farts are more concerned with your precious damned Social Security and Medicare than you are with the freedom of your children...

Once again, the Tea Party wing-nut agenda is revealed...now featuring not only class warfare (by the rich on the poor, which it has always featured), but intergenerational warfare pitting old vs young.

He also went on about one of his favorite memes that there is no need to raise taxes because of massive amounts of government waste. He cited as his example the purchase in Michigan of 13 snowcone machines for $900 each, supposedly (and he offered no documentation) with money that was earmarked for Homeland Security.

This is a typical libertaritard smokescreen meme. Point out some little example (and let's face it, there will ALWAYS be some bad decision somewhere as no one is perfect) of government mistep and claim that somehow proves that all government is out of control, or wasteful, or whatever negative thing you want to call it.

 

[Bri]

Presidents don't have much control over gas prices.

-Bri

 

[WildCat]

He cited as his example the purchase in Michigan of 13 snowcone machines for $900 each, supposedly (and he offered no documentation) with money that was earmarked for Homeland Security.

That is fact:

The 13 ice machines cost a total $6,200, according to the West Shore Regional Planning Commission, which administers the grant money.

The written justification of the funding insists that the "machines will assist with treating the onset of heat exhaustion and stroke during large scale events or activities including possible terrorist incidents or similar emergencies."

The narrative also says local emergency managers believe they can use the Sno-Cone machines to produce ice quickly to help cool down suffering patients.

Grand Rapids Deputy Fire Chief Gary Szotko chairs the Regional Homeland Security Planning Board that made the grant request. He told 24 Hour News 8 on Tuesday that the machines do have a useful purpose.

"In the event of an emergency where there is great heat for extended period of time, it does provide a means for ice packs for responders, for volunteers to stay hydrated in a different way than bottled water, and it is portable," said Szotko.

Because, you know, there's just nowhere to get ice in this country. I suppose there's some magical place where every grocery, convenience, and liquor store has huge freezers full of bagged ice but until then the only solution is machines to make delicious Sno-Cones!

What's that you say? Every grocery, convenience, and liquor store in Michigan does have huge freezers loaded with bags of ice? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!! BRING ON THE SNO-CONES!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bri]

The 13 ice machines cost a total $6,200

These machines were for 13 different counties, to make ice packs to give to volunteers at large events as a way to help them stay cool and hydrated. No syrup was included, apparently.

But let's agree for the sake of argument that this $6200 was waste. What percentage of the total federal budget is waste?

-Bri

 

[kookbreaker]

That is fact:

Because, you know, there's just nowhere to get ice in this country. I suppose there's some magical place where every grocery, convenience, and liquor store has huge freezers full of bagged ice but until then the only solution is machines to make delicious Sno-Cones!

What's that you say? Every grocery, convenience, and liquor store in Michigan does have huge freezers loaded with bags of ice? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!! BRING ON THE SNO-CONES!!!!!!!!!

Umm, in a local emergency the power might be out, the roads to the liquor stores might be blocked or jammed, or any of another set of conditions that might be an issue. I presume that the HLS will have generators to run the sno-cone machines. While maybe ice generating machines might have been cheaper, the cubes and chunks might not have been as 'palatable' as the crushed ice.

But yeah, even if it is 'waste', its a drop in the bucket. I'd bet US military bands lose that many dollars in instruments every day - at least before this year's cuts.

 

[Neally]

Once again, the Tea Party wing-nut agenda is revealed...now featuring not only class warfare (by the rich on the poor, which it has always featured), but intergenerational warfare pitting old vs young.

Kicking the can down the road is working out real well for Greece, isn't it?

 

[ponderingturtle]

That is fact:

Because, you know, there's just nowhere to get ice in this country. I suppose there's some magical place where every grocery, convenience, and liquor store has huge freezers full of bagged ice but until then the only solution is machines to make delicious Sno-Cones!

What's that you say? Every grocery, convenience, and liquor store in Michigan does have huge freezers loaded with bags of ice? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!! BRING ON THE SNO-CONES!!!!!!!!!

And if they need enough ice that it is more economical to buy ice making machines than purchasing ice from someone with such a machine at a profit? Clearly any fast food restaurant would be silly to buy an ice machine when they could just nip down to the corner gas station and buy a bag of ice when they needed one.

When I worked as an EMT at a amusement park we would get our ice from the concession stands, but that I can see issues when you would not want to do it that way for some things. And the fire department I used to be a member of had an ice machine as well.

 

[leftysergeant]

Because, you know, there's just nowhere to get ice in this country. I suppose there's some magical place where every grocery, convenience, and liquor store has huge freezers full of bagged ice but until then the only solution is machines to make delicious Sno-Cones!

Why are you assuming that the power grid will not also go down when the compost hits the ventillating device? Why are you assumng that there will be any source of ice where they have to set up and emergency operations center?

You have never been a fire fighter, have you?

Has that idiot Boortz ever done anything related to national security or emergency services?

 

[leftysergeant]

Kicking the can down the road is working out real well for Greece, isn't it?

What in the hell are you talking about?

 

[BenBurch]

That is fact:

Because, you know, there's just nowhere to get ice in this country. I suppose there's some magical place where every grocery, convenience, and liquor store has huge freezers full of bagged ice but until then the only solution is machines to make delicious Sno-Cones!

What's that you say? Every grocery, convenience, and liquor store in Michigan does have huge freezers loaded with bags of ice? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!!!! BRING ON THE SNO-CONES!!!!!!!!!

What a dumb thing to conclude.

I have some experience reviewing emergency management studies. You absolutely cannot assume that you can get ice anywhere in an emergency, and it is very common to make provision for supply of ice.

 

[Neally]

What in the hell are you talking about?

Passing the unfunded and and ever increasing entitlement costs to future generations.

 

[BenBurch]

The reason you Republicans don't comprehend "Paying it forward" is that you cannot get past the first word; PAYING for ANYTHING.

 

[leftysergeant]

Passing the unfunded and and ever increasing entitlement costs to future generations.

What unfunded entitlement?

 

[BenBurch]

One more thing; A shaved ice machine does not MAKE ice. It processes ice into a form that can exchange heat with something very quickly, or which can be administered orally for heat relief and hydration. Now, as to why you would buy a Sno-Cone machine instead of a commercial machine; They are designed to be portable and cost less than a commercial ice shaving machine. Also they are emergency machines and so do not need to be as robust as a commercial machine - they simply will not accumulate enough hours to wear out.

 

[WildCat]

These machines were for 13 different counties, to make ice packs to give to volunteers at large events as a way to help them stay cool and hydrated. No syrup was included, apparently.

You can't think of a more economical way to keep volunteers cool?

But let's agree for the sake of argument that this $6200 was waste. What percentage of the total federal budget is waste?

-Bri

Why are you asking me?

Umm, in a local emergency the power might be out, the roads to the liquor stores might be blocked or jammed, or any of another set of conditions that might be an issue.

How much ice-making capacity do you think these machines add to those counties? How much ice is available at any given time in those counties? Remember, these machines only make ice, they don't store it. So when your emergency hits, now you start making ice? At 50 10lb bags per hour? Your local 7-11 has 50 10lb bags of ice in their freezer, right now! And it's (or a grocery store, or a liquor store etc etc) probably much closer to the scene of the disaster than the Sno-Cone machine in the Sheriff's office or wherever it's at.

I presume that the HLS will have generators to run the sno-cone machines.

You presume? I want evidence that the machines in question are hooked up to generators.

While maybe ice generating machines might have been cheaper, the cubes and chunks might not have been as 'palatable' as the crushed ice.

Your local 7-11 has crushed ice too.

But yeah, even if it is 'waste', its a drop in the bucket. I'd bet US military bands lose that many dollars in instruments every day - at least before this year's cuts.

So?

And if they need enough ice that it is more economical to buy ice making machines than purchasing ice from someone with such a machine at a profit? Clearly any fast food restaurant would be silly to buy an ice machine when they could just nip down to the corner gas station and buy a bag of ice when they needed one.

If they need that much ice their puny 500lb per hour Sno-Cone machines aren't going to help much.

When I worked as an EMT at a amusement park we would get our ice from the concession stands, but that I can see issues when you would not want to do it that way for some things. And the fire department I used to be a member of had an ice machine as well.

But these are Sno-Cone machines. I bet all summer long the guys pitch in to buy the syrup!

Why are you assuming that the power grid will not also go down when the compost hits the ventillating device? Why are you assumng that there will be any source of ice where they have to set up and emergency operations center?

Why are you assuming the Sno-Cone machine is hooked up to a generator? Do you realize said machine produces only 500lbs per hour? Do you really think that will help much in the disaster you describe?

Wouldn't it make more sense to hook up a commercial generator to a commercial ice plant that churns out ice by the truckload every hour?

You have never been a fire fighter, have you? Has that idiot Boortz ever done anything related to national security or emergency services?

Etc etc.

 

[BenBurch]

Wildcat, I just explained that a shaved ice machine does not make ice.

 

[WildCat]

And I just realized something - these machines don't make ice at all, they shave ice you put in the hopper. And Amazon has the exact same model for $374.27 with free shipping!

So they overpaid by $100 per unit.

 

[tyr_13]

Wildcat, I just explained that a shaved ice machine does not make ice.

Some can. We used to sell snow-cone machines at work that also made the ice at the same time. I don't know if the same type was purchased in this case, but if so it seems like a great money and space saving purchase.

I like how the point is being missed. Yes it's true that they bought snow-cone machines, but that's not the point. The point is that even if it was 'wasteful' (which hasn't been shown), it can't be extrapolated into 'the government is always extremely wasteful' or even 'more wasteful than businesses'. I'm betting more than a few business, including successful ones, wasted more on say, installing bowling lanes for their employees.

 

[WildCat]

Wildcat, I just explained that a shaved ice machine does not make ice.

Sorry, I'm responding as I read 'em. As you see I also discovered this.

Makes it even more obvious that this is for Sno-Cones to eat while you relax in a lawn chair in front of the fire house on a hot summer day.

 

[tyr_13]

And I just realized something - these machines don't make ice at all, they shave ice you put in the hopper. And Amazon has the exact same model for $374.27 with free shipping!

So they overpaid by $100 per unit.

The list price is $492, there is no reason to believe the same deal was going on at the time the purchased them, and there are only two of them currently available at that price.