Books you hate

[Skeptic Guy]

Any R. Jordan book after the third one - definitely becomes worse, the further into the series you go. Was anyone else surprised that he died before completing the 'last book'?

(SNIP)

I have to agree with you here. With all due respect to the memory of Mr. Jordan, he should have stopped after the third book. There has to be a thousand plot threads, and 3,000 characters and there is no way his wife is going to be able to resolve the whole thing in the last book, without resorting to some kick-butt deus ex machina crap.

 

[phrenicgermal]

Not in contention. The polls are not talking about what is influential to researchers, psychologists or psuedo-analysts, etc.; just to the individual readers themselves who felt most influenced by particular authors/works.

However, if a book influences a lot of individual readers then it will become a preseance great enough in a culture be cited frequently. Your life may have been changed forever by Bobby Fisher Teaches Chess, but that does not make it an influential book in the big picture. That's like saying that one person had a Yugo that lasted them 50 years, therefore Yugo's are quality cars.

Also, I would argue that if a book has influenced human thought, then one need not have read it to be influenced by it. For example, the number of people who have been influenced by any influential philosopher far outnumber the people who have read that philosopher's work because people are culturally taught to have thoughts based on his or her work without knowing it's origin. Such things won't show up in polls of people, but will show up in a study like that that I suggested.

 

[jimbob]

While not fiction, and with the utmost respect for his ability to build economic thought out, "A Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith is not terribly fun reading. I've read it all but never all in a single go. I'll pick it up, read a chapter, come back to it a couple years later and read another chapter...

Read his discussion about a bank run (due to the introduction of paper money) and spot the parallels with today.

I think the Wealth of Nations is interesting because the economy had recently been changing from a medieval economy into a recognisably modern one.

 

[RobRoy]

However . . . [snip]

No, sorry. There is no however here. You're arguing something that isn't in contention. You've built a straw man argument, albeit not on purpose, to prove something that is, at least to me, readily apparent. I've stated as much.

I have to agree with you here. With all due respect to the memory of Mr. Jordan, he should have stopped after the third book. There has to be a thousand plot threads, and 3,000 characters and there is no way his wife is going to be able to resolve the whole thing in the last book, without resorting to some kick-butt deus ex machina crap.

I'm currently re-reading The Wheel of Time (as a memorium to Mr. Jordan) and while I used to agree with the above assertion, I'm reserving judgement right now. Although I do still agree, there are simply too many characters to ever keep track of, I'm more impressed by Jordan's subtlety than I was before. I now believe that Jordan has set everything up and laid the ground work nicely for the final stage of this epic. I'm catching things that, since I was in something of a rush to "find out what happens next" or see some of my favorite characters, or just get away from Nynaeve and that lot of frustration, I missed previously. I believe Jordan once made a comment that he knew exactly how the final chapter of the books looked, and had been writing toward it from the begining. I'm a little more behind his writing after giving him this fresh and full reading.

By the way, Brandon Sanderson (The Mistborn Series) not Harriet Rigney, will be completing A Memory of Light.

 

[Wildy]

I can't remember if I mentioned it or if it was mentioned at all, but I have a dislike for the final Harry Potter book. In my defence to those that hated the entire series I was more at the point where I spent money and bought the book because I had all the others and by this point I just wanted to finish the series.

Even though it now holds the my reading record for the shortest time spent reading a book of that length (something like 8 hours) I didn't really enjoy it.

I think by this time Rowling knew that she could pretty much pen anything and still make plenty of money off of it. And she most likely had to change what she wanted the ending to be.

After reading the thing about splitting souls and that it was clear that (mouse over for spoiler) Harry had to die, but she changed the story to make her fans happy.

And then there were the chapters that basically saw the characters moving from one place to another to another to another to another, something small happens, they move from one place to another, to another, to another, etc.

 

[RobRoy]

After reading the thing about splitting souls and that it was clear that (mouse over for spoiler) Harry had to die, but she changed the story to make her fans happy.

Except that,

Harry did die.

And then there were the chapters that basically saw the characters moving from one place to another to another to another to another, something small happens, they move from one place to another, to another, to another, etc.

Agreed. Stephen King mentioned this in his review in EW, and stated that he thought it was so that the book kept the same time frame as the previous six, that being from the start of the school year, where things were slow and multiple threads were building, to the end of the school year, where everything came to a head and the final confrontations occured.

 

[phrenicgermal]

No, sorry. There is no however here. You're arguing something that isn't in contention. You've built a straw man argument, albeit not on purpose, to prove something that is, at least to me, readily apparent. I've stated as much.

Please go into more detail. I fail to see how small voluntary responce surveys from a specific small group of people is an accurate gauge of the most influential books in human thought. My proposal for a study is much more effective for the reasons that I have stated. It's a simple manner of using accurate statistical methods.

 

[Aardvark422]

Off the top of my head, the books that I really, really didn't enjoy were The Kite Runner, The Red Tent, and The Lovely Bones. I do have to say though that The Red Tent did start me on my path towards atheism. I went back to the old testament and reread the story of Dinah, and realized that it was such revolting rubbish.

 

[Wildy]

Except that,

Harry did die.

So that explains why he is alive at the end of the book. Because he is dead.

 

[RobRoy]

Please go into more detail. I fail to see how small voluntary responce surveys from a specific small group of people is an accurate gauge of the most influential books in human thought.

I haven't said it was.

My proposal for a study is much more effective for the reasons that I have stated. It's a simple manner of using accurate statistical methods.

I've already agreed with this.

 

[RobRoy]

So that explains why he is alive at the end of the book. Because he is dead.

For whatever reason, he had the option to come back. His conversation with Dumbledore, who is dead, states this.

I don't know that it was the best way to represent that, but there it is.

 

[gumboot]

I thought I should add the worst book I never read: Eragon by Christopher Paolini.

I almost put it down after the first sentence, it was so awful. Nonetheless I forged ahead and read the prologue and first chapter. A total of 6 1/2 pages.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the film was better.

 

[RobRoy]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the film was better.

I liked it better when it was called Dragonriders of the Lord of the Star Wars.

The movie had the "benefit" of only requiring 90 minutes of attention.

 

[alfaniner]

Boy Wonder: My Life in Tights. By Burt Ward

Now, I was always a big TV Batman fan. I was even Robin for Halloween for a couple years running. But reading this book totally trashed any good memories I had of the series. Fortunately I've forgotten most of it.

It is the only book, along with American Psycho (which I mentioned earlier in this thread), that I ever threw in the fire,mostly because I felt slimy after reading them, and didn't want them contaminating my other books on the shelves. With my penchant and respect for books, that took an awful lot of intent to do that those two.

There have been others that I have thrown across the room upon finishing, but managed to give them away (with a stern warning) or donate them without a care. But these were something special. Nevertheless, I still feel kind of guilty about it...

 

[Wildy]

For whatever reason, he had the option to come back. His conversation with Dumbledore, who is dead, states this.

I don't know that it was the best way to represent that, but there it is.

So in other words this whole thing about a "killing curse" is moot because you could just choose to return. Otherwise it would mean that Harry Potter would have to have been the most powerful dark wizard before he could even control magic

The thing is though that the explanation given seems to have been added after something of an outcry from fans who didn't want him to face what he should have faced.

 

[BPScooter]

OK, no need for this secrecy. Culmination of 7 books of JK Rowling has left a few of us picking for nits. I think she picked up on her strengths very early in the series and sustained them well. Captivating fantasy place, characters with oddly constructed names that somehow reflected their character, etc. I remember being very snotty about it when I offhandedly noted that Potter as in potter's fields is an outcast, Weasly seemed like weasel-y and Voldemort was rather like valle de mort or valley of death. Once I got that, I started to look and listen for other themes and such. From my perspective, the boy/girl growing up parts were essential but not central.

So the resolution of 7 books by JK Rowling related to massive influence vs. personal influence... I must say as a personal reader, it was capable of making sense and had me interested to the end. Thinking of it, I'm not sure if any other type of ending would have made it all work. Shaggy dog stories (WP) are infuriating.

 

[Wildy]

Look, as a series I'll admit that they are one of my favourites, and what it has done to the world of reading is good as well (because kids started to notice these things called "books"...) it's just that the ending seems a little to deus ex machina to me with Harry having a link back to the real world.

It just seems sort of like the ending for the film Dodgeball.

 

[zeusbheld]

Moby Dick is a gigantic waste of time.

i quite liked Moby Dick actually. read it twice

John Barth, and that sort of academic, self-indulgent foppery in general, makes me projectile vomit. i don't categorically reject overly philosophical/academic fiction; Jose Luis Borges is one of my favorite authors. but i can't stand Barth.

 

[jimbob]

I thought I should add the worst book I never read: Eragon by Christopher Paolini.

I almost put it down after the first sentence, it was so awful. Nonetheless I forged ahead and read the prologue and first chapter. A total of 6 1/2 pages.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the film was better.

Want a look at this thread?

Originally Posted by Ocelot

Anyone here read Eragon and Eldest and thought that the plot was lifted rather too wholesale from Star Wars?

That aside I'm a happy go luck kinda guy and won't let such irritations ruint he whole thing for me if there's any redeeming feature. Stunnign special effects, and appealing character, mindless escapism.

Plot? Don't you mean entire scenes?
{spoiler inserted, although it is supurfluous in this case}

I have just picked it up, and got a very strong feeling of deja vu.

as soon as the yoda character started, I asked myself how Eragon was going to loose his lightsaber sword at the end of the second film book. Did he actually loose his artificial hand too?

My guess for the next one is that his father brother will find redemption by somehow killing the evil emperor, when he finds compassion in Eragon's battle with the Emperor...

Still it was free from the library, and didn't hurt too much to read it.

There was a difference, they have to rescue the spouse of the Hans Solo from the predators fortress, and not Hans Solo from the slaver's fortress, so a complete difference there.

 

[RobRoy]

So in other words this whole thing about a "killing curse" is moot because you could just choose to return. Otherwise it would mean that Harry Potter would have to have been the most powerful dark wizard before he could even control magic

Nopers, that's not how I understood it.

Harry's death and return were under very special circumstances, and the culmination of, well, pretty much his entire life. His mother's sacrifice gave him the protection that held Voldemort at bay, and defeated him, up until the final confrontation.

Anyone else struck by the killing curse was worm food, and if Harry was hit with it by anyone else, he also would have been pushing dasies too.

The thing is though that the explanation given seems to have been added after something of an outcry from fans who didn't want him to face what he should have faced.

I may be naive for believing this, but my understanding from Rowling was that she had the major events mapped out quite early, and that included who would live and who would die, and in what manner for each. Rowling had a story to tell, and she was going to tell it whether or not the fans could face that story.

Again, that may be naive, but I like to think that an author with capacity Rowling has shown, didn't bow to any kind of pressure one way or another. She told her story, and she told it well.