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Bombshell: Bin Laden worked for US till 9/11

Therefore, ISI means CIA, UBL means CIA, and House of Saud means CIA. Or, to put it even simpler, it´s just all NWO.


This is just one random example for the above observation.

Wow. If you were at all familiar with my postings at JREF, you'd know that I often lament how simple-minded the so-called "debunkers" are. (It's fair to say that that's true of some truthers, also.) If you don't believe this, you can search for threads that I posted in, e.g., concerning the failure/corruption of the media. That was a particularly rich mother lode of postings where we can see, time after time, "debunkers" assuming that either we have, as options, "everybody in on it" (meaning reporters) or can't be true.

This idiotic tendency to simplify, and overlook plausible possibilities that, in a suitably translated situation, 10-year-olds could figure out (having observed Saturday morning cartoon plot lines since the age of 6, wherein betrayal and subterfuge are portrayed and understood), is the provenance of hostile debunkers. (OK, some hostile debunkers.) As a propaganda technique, it's useful (at least when targeting the shallow of mind), because it allows for the easy generation of strawmen. As a means for the shallow of mind to satisfy their desire to argue, and constrained by their abortive thought processes, so that they can believe that they have (once again) won an argument, it is also useful. Like other emotional argumentation (say concerning politics and religion), the "winner" of an argument is usually a foregone conclusion. Both sides win - in their own minds.

Not only have I never claimed that, e.g., "ISI means CIA", I doubt that most other 911 truthers believe that, either.

If some faction of the ISI cooperates with some faction of the CIA, in the end perpetrating what amounts to treason against the United States (on the part of the CIA members, I mean), it would be wrong not to have pursued that line of inquiry.

If some faction of the ISI cooperates with some faction of the CIA, in the end realizing that they have gotten played by a Bin Laden that they were cooperating with just yesterday, to de-stabilize China, it would be wrong not to have pursued that line of inquiry.

Whether or not that Bin Laden and his associates were protected by a rogue faction of Saudi intelligence, by Saudi intelligence at the highest level, or not protected by Saudi intelligence, at all.

How's that for complexity, progge? Shall I count the permutations I've laid out above, or shall you?

Now, figuring which permutation, of all the permuations, not just those laid out above, is closest to the truth is not something that is going to happen on an internet forum. Not with any finality. Figuring it out in a way that honors the American public, whether or not a whole bunch of American spooks get identified at traitors or just saps, is something that will require state power.

Quite a problem when the suspects of many of those permuations are state actors! But don't tell the debunkers that! You'll be wasting your breath, even though their 10-year-old children could have pointed it out to them.

Hence, as annoying as the "911 was an inside job" mantra may be, the companion meme of calling for a serious re-investigation is not only not annoying, it is essential to get to the bottom of things. Not likely to happen, but that is another matter.
 
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Wow. If you were at all familiar with my postings at JREF, you'd know that I often lament how simple-minded the so-called "debunkers" are. (It's fair to say that that's true of some truthers, also.) If you don't believe this, you can search for threads that I posted in, e.g., concerning the failure/corruption of the media. [Snipped examples of debunker simplification.]

You´re no friend of simplifications and polarization, I understand. But then, why such a misleading post? I mean, there are speculations, backed up by some evidence, that at least two of the 9/11 terrorists were financially supported by Saudi royals. Now you seriously try to make plausible the demand for a new investigation on the ground of these speculations, but (and that´s the point) as an investigation which is focused on the possibility that the Saudis were “proxies for American intelligence”. Which means you add other speculations to speculations, and this time not even backed up by some evidence, just because it´s a logical possibility (or based on kinda anecdotal evidence).

However, such pure possibilities are not enough for the demand of a new 9/11 investigation. (The same goes for the ISI-CIA connections, and alleged UBL-CIA connections.)

The second misleading point in your post was that you connect the Saudi-CIA-links to the truth movement´s call for a new investigation, while Saudi intelligence is just a minor topic among people in the 9/11 truth movement. Rather it´s a major topic for those people who are calling for a new investigation from outside the 9/11 truth movement, i.e. people who support neither CD, nor Pentagon flyover, nor a Shanksville shootdown, nor alive hijackers etc. People, who accept the official narrative in its rough form, but want to add some details and move emphasis from one point to another. (E.g., Robert Baer, or some members of the 9/11 commission staff.)

Anyway, since I´m unfamiliar with your postings here at JREF, I do not insist on calling your posting the simplification of the type I was speaking about. It was misleading, nonetheless.


Not only have I never claimed that, e.g., "ISI means CIA", I doubt that most other 911 truthers believe that, either.

Come on … Have you ever seen/heard a truther who calls for an investigation into hijacker (Atta)-ISI-links without the CIA at the back of him/her mind? Such truthers are a minority, as far as I can see.


[Snipped the permutations]
Now, figuring which permutation, of all the permuations, not just those laid out above, is closest to the truth is not something that is going to happen on an internet forum. Not with any finality. Figuring it out in a way that honors the American public, whether or not a whole bunch of American spooks get identified at traitors or just saps, is something that will require state power.

Quite a problem when the suspects of many of those permuations are state actors! But don't tell the debunkers that! You'll be wasting your breath, even though their 10-year-old children could have pointed it out to them.

Hence, as annoying as the "911 was an inside job" mantra may be, the companion meme of calling for a serious re-investigation is not only not annoying, it is essential to get to the bottom of things. Not likely to happen, but that is another matter.

A re-investigation is essential if and only if it´s backed up by evidence showing serious lacks in the investigations done so far. Pure possibilities are no serious lacks. Possibilities are endless, serious lacks aren´t.
 
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You anti-truthers are traitors to this country.

Hi, kameelyun! You are the kameelyun that posts at 911blogger, aren't you? I didn't know you were a JREFfer as well! Mind you don't droll on the floor, or at least keep a towel handy.
 
Hence, as annoying as the "911 was an inside job" mantra may be, the companion meme of calling for a serious re-investigation is not only not annoying, it is essential to get to the bottom of things. Not likely to happen, but that is another matter.

You know sometimes I wish you would get your godamn investigation just so you'd shut the **** up with your ridiculous bullcrap.


The trouble is that short of a David Ray Griffin led, Steven Jones organized investigation, neither you or any of the truther dingleheads, will be satisfied.

So SCREW YOUR NEW INVESTIGATION!

TAM:D
 
There is a Flash movie under development at Warners, but it is on the back burner while the front burner is occupied by the Green Lantern film and the Superman Reboot.
Jonah Hex looks great, though.The stills are impressive.

Sweet....I hope they make that Flash movie...
 
Yeah, I'm sure the CIA was going to share operational details with a newly hired FBI translator who had a handful of low-level security clearances (compared to what the CIA normally has) . :rolleyes:

Mike Malloy will believe any conspiracy theory that comes down the road. He marks Art Bell look like a cynic.

You are likely correct....A lot of CIA programs are at the SCI level and are also SAPs.

I would assume a newly hired FBI translator would not have such clearances...
 
You´re no friend of simplifications and polarization, I understand. But then, why such a misleading post?

The title of that post is "It ain't necessarily so". I suggested only one of the 'permutations' (scenarios), delineated in post 181, but when you want to contradict a universal statement, all you need is 1 counter-examples. Re-read Mackey's statement, that I quoted, and notice that he emphasized the word "ANY".

Besides that, The Big Lebowski is an awfully funny movie. If I indirectly give them a plug, can't be a bad thing. :D

I mean, there are speculations, backed up by some evidence, that at least two of the 9/11 terrorists were financially supported by Saudi royals. Now you seriously try to make plausible the demand for a new investigation on the ground of these speculations, but (and that´s the point) as an investigation which is focused on the possibility that the Saudis were “proxies for American intelligence”.
Or, in fact, any of the scenarios post 181, plus who knows how many other scenarios?

Which means you add other speculations to speculations, and this time not even backed up by some evidence, just because it´s a logical possibility (or based on kinda anecdotal evidence).

I'm not actually sure about the quality of the LaRouche paper, I give you that. The fact that it is partly based on recently declassified papers is uncontroversial, right? But beyond that, it's not like I'm actually an authority on Saudi intelligence, and am qualified to evaluate the paper.

For that matter, how can I be sure of Sibel Edmonds' claims, unless state power is used to produce the proof, which she has assured us would be easy to do?

One thing I'm sure of is that investigations are iterative processes, and they depend on testing and investigating hypotheses - call them "speculations" if you like. I'm deeply distrustful of people who pretend to know what an investigation would yield, but who won't allow their minds to raise even the most obvious of questions.

However, such pure possibilities are not enough for the demand of a new 9/11 investigation.
(The same goes for the ISI-CIA connections, and alleged UBL-CIA connections.)
Actually, they don't need to be enough. They need to be enough, together with all the other facts and reports that contradict the official tales, that have not been shown to be completely without merit.


Having said that, if all there was in the 911 conspiracy theory literature was Edmonds claims, given the US Congressmen who have vouched for her, that is quite enough for me to call for another investigation.

The second misleading point in your post was that you connect the Saudi-CIA-links to the truth movement´s call for a new investigation, while Saudi intelligence is just a minor topic among people in the 9/11 truth movement. Rather it´s a major topic for those people who are calling for a new investigation from outside the 9/11 truth movement, i.e. people who support neither CD, nor Pentagon flyover, nor a Shanksville shootdown, nor alive hijackers etc.

I defy you to find more that a handful of 911 Truthers who, if you asked them "Would you support a full re-investigation into 911, include any possible Saudi intelligence connections?", would say "no". In fact, I defy you to produce more than a handful of 911 Truther who, if you asked them, "Would you support a full re-investigation of just possible Saudi intelligence connections to 911?", would say "no".

If some of the 911 street activists chant "911 was an inside job", or typically present other other lines of argument, so what? They don't represent everybody in the movement. Furthermore, who even knows why any given 911 truther focusses on one thing, rather than another? Personally, I don't particularly care.
Come on … Have you ever seen/heard a truther who calls for an investigation into hijacker (Atta)-ISI-links without the CIA at the back of him/her mind?
Ah, how am I supposed to see what's in the back of anybody's mind?

Besides which, besides about 4 events in NYC, I don't hang out with 911 Truth activists. I've met quite a few people (non-activists) who don't buy the government's BS, but we didn't really discuss it much. However, I don't recall anybody mentioning the CIA. I recall a local fellow wondering how a plane could go through a small hole in the Pentagon, so I explained about the series of ring walls. So, maybe quite a few have swallowed CIA disinformation, but of the few souls that I've discussed this with in person, I honestly don't recall anybody mentioning the CIA. :)

A re-investigation is essential if and only if it´s backed up by evidence showing serious lacks in the investigations done so far. Pure possibilities are no serious lacks. Possibilities are endless, serious lacks aren´t.

"pure possibilities" is your framing, not mine. Tell me, do you think Senator Leahy would describe Sibel Edmonds latest bombshell claim as a "pure possibility"?
 
You're a woman and you chose "Jacque" for a username?

Ah...I know you're French Canadian so you might see this as odd.

One of my first girlfriends spelled her name that way. Pronounced "Jackie" down here. Not necessarily an oddity. Chalk it up to cultural differences.

As to her claims, well...I'm always suspect of anyone that says "I know this was true because I personally saw the files myself!!!" Brings back shades of He Who Must Not Be Named On This Forum. If they had first-hand eyewitness knowledge of the string that would unravel the whole official version of events, they wouldn't be on a skeptic's forum almost ten years after the fact bragging about it.

The other thing a lot of truthers don't get is there is no "single point of failure" for the official 9/11 story. It's the result of thousands and thousands of man-hours worth of research, investigation, intelligence gathering, and military operations conducted by multiple different agencies, all of whose conclusions pointed in the direction of the official story.

You could just hand-wave away any organization with government connections, but that begs the question - what makes an authoritative piece of evidence? Is it enough to have "Dr." before your name? Seems to be with the 9/11 Truth Movement. Dr. Jones. Dr. Griffin. Dr. Wood. It goes on and on and on, and not in the epic Journey bringin-the-house-down kinda way. Rather like that damned jukebox that won't stop skipping.
 
I have never seen such a pathetic reaction to the truth since the flat-earthers challenged me back in the 16th century.

I thank brave Sibel for her courage to speak the truth.

Sibel is the greatest symbol for truth since Joan of Arc.
 
I have never seen such a pathetic reaction to the truth since the flat-earthers challenged me back in the 16th century.

I thank brave Sibel for her courage to speak the truth.

Sibel is the greatest symbol for truth since Joan of Arc.

What a weird comment this is.
 
Sibel is the greatest symbol for truth since Joan of Arc.

Oh, I agree. Put her right up there with April Gallop, Cynthia McKinney, Judy Wood, Shirley Phelps-Roeper, Tokyo Rose, Sylvia Browne and Miss Cleo.

Good company all around.
 
I have never seen such a pathetic reaction to the truth since the flat-earthers challenged me back in the 16th century.

I thank brave Sibel for her courage to speak the truth.

Sibel is the greatest symbol for truth since Joan of Arc.

You are aware of the end to that story?
 

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