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Bobby Fischer Dead

While he won, he was a hero, when he cracked up, he was discarded and forgotten.

I believe you characterize this inaccurately. If there was any reason he was "forgotten" it is because he made little attempt to defend his title, and was ultimately stripped of it. If you play no games as world champion, then yes, people will forget you.
 
Bobby Fischer was a hero to me. Anyone who mocks him proves they are simple minded. Life isn't simple.
Well stated. He is a hero of mine too.

Of course you recognize my avatar? I chose Fischer to be my avatar here, not because he was some great bastion of skeptical thinking (that would only hold true in the domain of the chessboard). But if you were to ask me to provide evidence of the supernatural--of course I would fail--but the closest thing I could offer you are Fischer's chess games. How a finite brain can intuit chess moves in a virtually infinite matrix of possibilities, that even modern supercomputers cannot grasp, is beyond my explanation. It's as if God was presiding over his games, and whispered the perfect moves in Bobby's ear.
 
So he was a great chess player.

O.J. was a great football player. What's your point?
 
But being mentally ill might..

He was mentally ill by any reasonable standard..

Yeah, so, exactly which mental illnesses cause people to deny the Holocaust, praise the 9/11 attacks, and complain that the world is run by evil Jew conspiracies? Which of these debilitating mental ailments causes a loss of cognitive reasoning in all areas except when playing chess?
 
Yeah, so, exactly which mental illnesses cause people to deny the Holocaust, praise the 9/11 attacks, and complain that the world is run by evil Jew conspiracies? Which of these debilitating mental ailments causes a loss of cognitive reasoning in all areas except when playing chess?
Okay, it's Friday night, Mrs. BPSCG is on her way to Dallas to visit her mom for her 80th birthday, and I'm on my first large glass of zin, having finished off the bottle of cabernet sauvignon, so I might regret this post in the morning, but...

What an acute, perspicacious question. I don't know if a simple question has ever made me revise an opinion before. Now it has. I agree - Fischer may have been a world-class :talk034:, but he was not mentally ill.

I raise my glass of Rosenblum zinfandel to you, Checkmite. Were you here, I would pour you a glass and give you a bottle to take home.

How I love this forum.
 
Bobby Fischer was a hero to me. Anyone who mocks him proves they are simple minded. Life isn't simple.

"I say death to President Bush, I say death to the United States. F--- the United States, f--- the Jews, the Jews are a criminal people, they mutilate their children, they are murderous, criminal, thieving, lying, bastards. They made up the Holocaust, there's not a word of truth to it. They are the worst liars and bastards. And now, what goes around, comes around, they're getting it back, finally. Praise God... Hallelujah, this is a wonderful day. F--- the United States. Cry, you crybabies! Whine, you bastards! Now your time is coming! The US is getting what is coming to it. This is just the beginning...The United States is a farce controlled by dirty, hook-nosed, circumcised Jew bastards." - Bobby Fischer on September 11, 2001

I view Fischer with nothing less than contempt. I will gladly and incessantly mock anyone who comes up with a screed like that; and anybody who thinks I am "simple minded" for doing so is an idiot.
 
It's as if God was presiding over his games, and whispered the perfect moves in Bobby's ear.
Anyone who's seen Amadeus recognizes that idea. In the movie, Salieri comes to believe that the giggling, obscene, vulgar, irreverent, brash, obnoxious Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart is simply the unworthy instrument through which God dictates perfect music. The pious Salieri, recognizing his own inferiority (and being the only one who recognizes the greatness of the music pouring out of Mozart), vows to destroy God's chosen instrument, as revenge for not being chosen as that instrument himself.

Mozart died at the age of 35, about the same age that Fischer stopped playing chess on the world stage, giving more evidence that God is a sadistic SOB.

BTW, my tiny knowledge of Latin tells me that "Amadeus" means "God's beloved."
 
If you are interested in chess and Bobby Fischer, I highly recommend one of the top ten match books ever written, Yasser Seirawan, No Regrets: Fischer-Spassky 1992 (Seattle: International Chess Enterprises, 1992).

Seirawan does a great, almost move by move, analysis of the games. At the end of the book, Seirawan gives a 19 page non-chess, profile of Fischer.
 
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There's a saying that there's a fine line between genius and insanity.
Yep.

Fischer and Gould were both loopy.

That said, they gave more than they got, for which I am grateful, as a beneficiary of what they gave.

DR
 
Instead of using the occasion of his passing as an opportunity to dig up his most vile shortcomings, let us celebrate this man for what he accomplished.

Take a trip with me back to the year 1970. Fischer, after a lukewarm start in the Interzonal Tournament, suddenly switches into overdrive and finishes the event with an incredible 7 consecutive wins.

For non-chess players, this may require some perspective. It is more stunning to win 7 chess games in a row than, for example, a baseball team winning 7 games in a row. This is because most chess games end without a winner at all: most games are drawn. What's more, half of your games you are forced to play with the Black pieces, which is a distinct disadvantage. To win with the Black pieces is a coup, but that was Fischer's style, to fight for the win in each and every game.

Fischer's winning streak now stood at 7 consecutive games.

Having won the Interzonal, he earned the right to participate in the Candidates matches. His first opponent was the legendary Soviet grandmaster Mark Taimanov, chess genius and piano virtuoso. With virtually unlimited resources to dedicate to the state-sponsored chess program, Taimanov had dozens of grandmasters at his disposal to help prepare him for this match. Teams of Soviet chess players (including the reigning world champion!) would be assigned to analyze Fischer's games, his weaknesses, and specific positions that might crop up during the games. They would then report back to Taimanov with summaries of their analysis. Meanwhile, Fischer would sit in his apartment with his chess set, or in the park with his pocket-set, and prepare alone for what would be the hardest match in his career.

The match was 10 games, and it was anybody's guess if Fischer could win against Taimanov, backed by the Soviet chess apparatus.

But then Fischer then did what was considered impossible. He won the first game, and the second, and third, fourth, and fifth--and upon winning the sixth game it became mathematically impossible for Taimanov to come back. The ten game match ended at only six games, and Taimanov returned home in shame.

Fischer's streak now stood at 13 consecutive games.

Upon Taimanov's return to the USSR we was labeled a national disgrace, not simply because he lost, but because he lost in a fashion that was considered virtually impossible. The Soviet chess authorities even suggested that his grandmaster title be rescinded, which would have been unprecedented.

Pundits claimed that such a thorough trouncing at the highest levels of chess was a feat that would never be repeated in chess history. How soon they would be proved wrong.

Fischer's next opponent was the Danish attacking genius, Bent Larsen. Again, the match was 10 games. Fischer won the first game. And the second. And the third, fourth, and fifth. And upon winning the sixth game, he had once again defeated a world class player by the perfect score of 6-0. In baseball terms, you could compare this to back-to-back no-hitters, although even that comparison falls short. The Soviets realized at this point that they owed Taimanov an apology.

Fischer's streak now stood at 19 consecutive games.

Fischer's next opponent was former world champion Tigran Petrosian. Upon winning the first game of the match, he won twenty consecutive game of chess at the very highest level of competition. This is a record which is unlikely to even be approached, much less surpassed.

Ever since the morning of history, when chess delighted the dwellers on the banks of the Ganges and the Indus, nobody else has accomplished so much to this art--this art form that comes in the disguise of a game.

Bobby Fischer is not dead. He genuinely achieved immortality.
 
I have an old LP of Gould in a wide-ranging conversation about music with a Columbia Records producer, and he sounds like a perfectly rational, very intelligent, thoughtful, and engaging young man, far removed from the neurotic who wrote hourly diary entries about the color and shape of his bowel movements in his last years.
Fischer was exactly the same way. There's an mp3 online of a radio interview he gave a few years ago, maybe 2006...where he's ranting for 18 minutes about this Bank that he thinks stole his money...then the interviewer asks him about his favorite chess players of the past and it's like a switch goes off and he turns into a COMPLETELY rational and normal person. He even breaks out the phrase "let's not exaggerate" more then once. Then of course he mentions a player who was stripped of his grandmaster status and he goes off on how the "Jew-controlled press" is trying to strip him of his title and it's back to lala land.

Interestingly enough...when Jeremy Schaap (espn interviewer, son of Dick Schaap who apparently was a former friend of Fischer and Jewish)...asked Fischer exactly HOW he knew the Jews were controlling the world...he just stammered then said "I've read a lot of books." That knocked me for a loop. Usually racists, anti-semites etc. can't wait to quote to you whatever statistics they have that they think prove their case. Fischer having little to no actual justification for his hatred is bizarre indeed.

There's a saying that there's a fine line between genius and insanity. That's really not true - it's more like a vast, yawning gulf - but I wonder if there isn't some relationship. Are the brains of people who have stunning abilities in one individual area prone to being deficient in some other, more mundane area that affacts their ability to function socially?

Just wondering out loud.
I'd say there's a fine line in PERCEPTION between them. Normal people can't make sense of a genius chess move until the rest of the game is played out...so it might as well be insane. The same is probably true for genius moves in just about any field. Genius goes from A to C without needing step B. Or, if you prefer, A to J without needing B-I.

Fischer was notorious for this. In the radio interview I mentioned above, Fischer quotes a passage from a book about himself...which quotes Mark Taimanov (who he 6-0'd) as saying that "Fischer's moves didn't make sense, at least not to the rest of us. By the time his plan was clear it was too late and we were dead."

As for his peculiarities...a pretty simple concoction of Asperger's Syndrome and extreme Isolation due to giftedness...combined with the sinking into one's own paranoia and overexcitability that comes along with it.
 
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You chess freaks will pardon me, but I don't think the word genius needs to include guys who are good at a board game. I'd rather require of a genius that he do something creative, i.e., leave an artifact behind that you have to call a work of genius. Darwin, Einstein, Tesla, Mozart, the guy who engineered the Buddha of Kamakura -- hell, we could all compile a list, and probably all agree on it.

But Bobby Fischer? Poor fellow. R.I.P.
You are the first person I've EVER heard attempt to argue that the word "genius" did not apply to Bobby Fischer. I also suspect you'll be the last.

Here's a statement for you to chew on. There's a very good chance that Bobby Fischer, at his peak, was better at chess than any human being had ever been at anything. Ever.
 
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Having won the Interzonal, he earned the right to participate in the Candidates matches. His first opponent was the legendary Soviet grandmaster Mark Taimanov, chess genius and piano virtuoso. With virtually unlimited resources to dedicate to the state-sponsored chess program, Taimanov had dozens of grandmasters at his disposal to help prepare him for this match. Teams of Soviet chess players (including the reigning world champion!) would be assigned to analyze Fischer's games, his weaknesses, and specific positions that might crop up during the games. They would then report back to Taimanov with summaries of their analysis. Meanwhile, Fischer would sit in his apartment with his chess set, or in the park with his pocket-set, and prepare alone for what would be the hardest match in his career.
Reminds me of that Rocky movie...
 
Instead of using the occasion of his passing as an opportunity to dig up his most vile shortcomings, let us celebrate this man for what he accomplished.


Well, you can count the hits and ignore the misses all you want. I'll continue to consider each person as the sum of ALL his parts, not just the bright and shiny ones.
 
Oh, brother. Here comes that tired old crap about Alekhine and the Nazis.:rolleyes:

Long after his peak in his 30s, Alekhine had his issues. Put them both at their peak, and Bobby Fischer would still be wearing a tinfoil toupee, and Alekhine, blindfolded, would beat Fischer like a drum.

Yeah right - thats why Alekhine ducked and weaved on the rematch with Capablanca - He was a bum that got lucky, and knew it
 
Instead of using the occasion of his passing as an opportunity to dig up his most vile shortcomings, let us celebrate this man for what he accomplished.

Thank you for the wonderful tribute. People just dont grasp what chess means to Russians, it is not a game, but a reason to live. For a lone wolf American to take on that machine, and beat it, was a wonderful effort - perhaps one being slowly lost to history :(
 
Yeah, so, exactly which mental illnesses cause people to deny the Holocaust, praise the 9/11 attacks, and complain that the world is run by evil Jew conspiracies? Which of these debilitating mental ailments causes a loss of cognitive reasoning in all areas except when playing chess?

Did he ever threaten to kill an air marshal?

:duck:
 
Bye-Bye, Wackjob.
He praised the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, saying America should be "wiped out," and described Jews as "thieving, lying bastards." His mother was Jewish.
Technically, if it's true, that makes him Jewish too, according to Jewish law. So I guess we can call him a self-hating jew.
 

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