Bob Woodward Interview With Kerry

BPSCG said:
That's a pretty lame excuse. Anything can be twisted into unrecognizable shapes if taken out of proper context. I could probably mine quotes from this forum that would prove you shot Lincoln. Does that mean you should therefore shut up? Should Kerry?

Why can't he say what he would do differently from Bush? FWIW, does the New York Times interview say? I'd love to read it, if you could provide a link.
It's not a lame excuse at all. It would be nice if people would stay "above the belt" in this election, and not mischaracterize a candidate's position, but rather address it fairly on the merits.

Unfortunately, the Bush camp has no hope but to go below the belt, and discussion of ideas on their merits is virtually unknown among Bush supporters. Not only is there a legitimate concern about mischaracterization of Kerry's views, but the mischaracterizations would be supposedly "endorsed" by the Washington Post or Bob Woodward.

As for the Times article, I think it is now a pay-per-view article, but I haven't checked to be sure.
 
Ed said:
All that I am suggesting is that the major problem that I have with Kerry (and I think that I share with others) is that a "plan" tells me nothing. Nixon, rem,ember, had a "plan" to get us out of Vietnam. He didn't want to disclose it before the election and after we found that it was "Vietnamization", aka "bug-out".
Both Kerry and Bush have said they have plans: for foreign policy, for the economy, for domestic priorities, etc. Their web sites set out some of the details, but not enough detail that a person could tell that the plans would actually be successful.

You are right about Nixon having a "secret plan" to deal with the Vietnam problem. That plan turned out to be not very much of a plan at all.
 
fewwwwwww

Ed said:
All that I am suggesting is that the major problem that I have with Kerry (and I think that I share with others) is that a "plan" tells me nothing. Nixon, rem,ember, had a "plan" to get us out of Vietnam. He didn't want to disclose it before the election and after we found that it was "Vietnamization", aka "bug-out".

The core of Kerry's plan, as I understand it, is international help in Iraq: getting the UN and all the countries Bush snubbed invading Iraq to provide peacekeepers, help with reconstruction, etc. The US military is stretched so thin that, like it or not, this kind of help is desperately needed.
"Bush made a horrible mess and doesn't want to admit it; I recognize the mistake and will fix it."
 
BPSCG said:
I've been critical of Kerry here (please, don't argue with me on this point - you know I have), in particular about his refusal to state what he would do differently as Commander-in-Chief. When asked this kind of question on public forums, Kerry's answer generally starts with "One thing I wouldn't do is..." and then segues off into a denunciation of everything Bush has done, without ever answering what he would do differently.

The Washington Post's Bob Woodward wrote on October 22, He published Bush's replies in his book, "Plan of Attack."

Woodward contacted Kerry's people to arrange an interview with the senator. He "provided the Kerry campaign with a list of 22 possible questions based entirely on Bush's actions leading up to the war and how Kerry might have responded in the same situations."

Here's the result.
There was no section on how Kerry "would have" responded.
 
To be frank, I am disappointed with Kerry's declining of Bob Woodward's interview. But Bush's "plan" is certainly not tolerable, and so I choose to look at this election as having either to opt for someone who looks to be a guarantor for failure given his stalwart manner in comporting himself in the past or for a guy who has what seems to be at least a somewhat greater chance of being able to change things for the better.
 
That's a pretty lame excuse. Anything can be twisted into unrecognizable shapes if taken out of proper context. I could probably mine quotes from this forum that would prove you shot Lincoln. Does that mean you should therefore shut up? Should Kerry?
Should Bush and Cheney have testified under oath in public before the 9/11 commission? Considering that what Kerry "would do" isn't as important as what Bush and Cheney did?
 
It amazes me that the people who portray every action of the Bush admin as secretive and such aren't equally going after Kerry for his nebulous plans, softball appearances (Dr. Phil, etc), and dodging people like Woodward.

This man is the secret candidate.
 
Re: Re: Bob Woodward Interview With Kerry

Dorian Gray said:
There was no section on how Kerry "would have" responded.

You are correct. Perhaps you'd like to add that section now.

But you can't. You can neither answer for him nor understand why it is others find that disappointing (to put a happy face on it).
 
I just looked at the link with the 22 questions.

Having heard that Kerry declined to answer before reading the article, I expected some pretty tough questions for the Senator.

I was wrong.

90% of those questions were softballs. And Kerry even received the questions in advance.

His failure to do the interview under those circumstances tends to confirm my suspicions that he has no "plan" for Iraq other than his campaign slogans which boil down to: "Trust me. I've got a 'plan.'"
 
shuize said:
I just looked at the link with the 22 questions.

Having heard that Kerry declined to answer before reading the article, I expected some pretty tough questions for the Senator.

I was wrong.

90% of those questions were softballs. And Kerry even received the questions in advance.

His failure to do the interview under those circumstances tends to confirm my suspicions that he has no "plan" for Iraq other than his campaign slogans which boil down to: "Trust me. I've got a 'plan.'"

I agree. What I surmise is that he probably could not have said that he would have acted in a substantivly different manner. That being the case what does he have to offer on Iraq?
 
Kerry stoped done hard interviews after his disasterous Meet the Press interiew. Here was one exchange from that.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Videotape, MEET THE PRESS, April 18, 1971):

MR. KERRY (Vietnam Veterans Against the War): There are all kinds of atrocities and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free-fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50-caliber machine guns which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search-and-destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare. All of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free-fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: You committed atrocities.

SEN. KERRY: Where did all that dark hair go, Tim? That's a big question for me. You know, I
thought a lot, for a long time, about that period of time, the things we said, and I think the word is a bad word. I think it's an inappropriate word.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

He spent the entire hour doging direct questions.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4772030/
 
The past can fortell the future.

Case in point:
Kerry Speech Before Voting Against first Gulf War

If we go to war in the next few days, it will not be because our immediate vital interests are so threatened and we have no other choice. It is not because of nuclear, chemical, biological weapons when, after all, Saddam Hussein had all those abilities or was working toward them for years--even while we armed him and refused to hold him accountable for using some of them. It will be because we set an artificial deadline. As we know, those who have been in war, there is no artificial wound, no artificial consequence of war.

Most important, we must balance that against the fact that we have an alternative, an alternative that would allow us to kick Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait, an accomplishment that we all want to achieve.

Kerry drones on and on about an alternative to the Gulf War, but never quite says what that alternative is. Sound like his current campaign?

Balance Kerry's speech against the Gulf War with the actual events:

Chronology of the Kuwait Crisis

August 12 The U.S. threatens to use force, if necessary, to intercept trade with Iraq. Saddam Hussein makes a peace offer tied to Israel leaving the occupied territories.
LOL! Nice try, Saddam.

September 5 Saddam Hussein calls for an Islamic holy war against U.S. forces in the region.
Yeah, it should be a breeze to negotiate peace with the great statesman Saddam Hussein.

September 23 Saddam Hussein vows retaliation against Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Israel if attacked.
Relax, there's nothing to worry about. Why can't we all just get along?

October 24
Released American hostages claim they were starved and denied medical attention.
Funny, I don't seem to remember any demonstrations about these atrocities.

December 2 U.S. announces it will not attack if Iraq leaves Kuwait and releases all hostages. Iraq fires Scud missiles.
Stimuli and response.

And on and on...
 
To all you idiots who say Kerry doesn't have a plan, or he has a secret plan - here's a hint:

www.johnkerry.com

It's all there. Read it yourself, you lazy morons, and stop letting Hannity tell you what to think and say. At THIS site there is LITERALLY a section called "Winning the Peace in Iraq".

Some secret, you no-brained conservative sheep.

By contrast, Bush's site again LITERALLY has NO plan to win the peace in Iraq. At this site, he instead lies right in the plan. Yes, LIES. Example:
The President and Congress created the Department of Homeland Security to use Federal resources more wisely and to strengthen homeland security through better coordination of individual agencies.
The President never wanted the Department of Homeland Security until public pressure was brought against him, and even then the "coordination" is being fought against.
Continue to Strengthen Security at Every identified Vulnerability - President Bush will tighten border security by hiring additional border patrol agents, increasing unmanned aerial vehicle flights and remote video surveillance, and expanding biometric identification at the top fifty land ports of entry by the end of 2004.
Bush hasn't secured nuclear power plants, bio or chemical plants, and look, right in the quote do you see anything about securing SEA ports? Do you see that he is promising to do this IN THE FUTURE, even though he has been president nearly 4 years? Did you know that he only hired 1,000 more border patrol to help patrol thousands of miles of border?
After three years of extensive review and consultation with Congress and our allies around the world, President Bush has begun the most comprehensive restructuring of the U.S. military presence overseas since the end of the Korean War.
Wait a minute - he consulted with our allies? I thought that was WRONG!
"Create a National Intelligence Director" - with scant budget control.
In an era when rogue regimes still seek long-range missiles, the President continues to protect America by pushing forward with missile defense. The Administration is beginning to build a multi-layered missile defense system to protect the American people and our allies, friends, and forces deployed overseas. Later this year, the first components of America's missile defense system will become operational.
He often accuses Kerry of having September 10 thinking - but a MISSILE SHIELD is September 10, NINETEEN EIGHTY ONE thinking! No one has missiles that can reach us except the former Soviet Union and China, and if you'll recall, I think we have that covered. And have for 50 years. Would a missile shield have prevented 9/11? I rest my case.

Oh yeah, and STILL no plan to win the peace in Iraq. How you like me now? Care to comment on that, lazy conservative shills? I guess you've been Hannitized, or something.
 
Dorian Gray said:
To all you idiots who say Kerry doesn't have a plan, or he has a secret plan - here's a hint:

www.johnkerry.com

It's all there. Read it yourself, you lazy morons, and stop letting Hannity tell you what to think and say. At THIS site there is LITERALLY a section called "Winning the Peace in Iraq".

Some secret, you no-brained conservative sheep.

By contrast, Bush's site again LITERALLY has NO plan to win the peace in Iraq. At this site, he instead lies right in the plan. Yes, LIES. Example: The President never wanted the Department of Homeland Security until public pressure was brought against him, and even then the "coordination" is being fought against. Bush hasn't secured nuclear power plants, bio or chemical plants, and look, right in the quote do you see anything about securing SEA ports? Do you see that he is promising to do this IN THE FUTURE, even though he has been president nearly 4 years? Did you know that he only hired 1,000 more border patrol to help patrol thousands of miles of border? Wait a minute - he consulted with our allies? I thought that was WRONG!
"Create a National Intelligence Director" - with scant budget control.
He often accuses Kerry of having September 10 thinking - but a MISSILE SHIELD is September 10, NINETEEN EIGHTY ONE thinking! No one has missiles that can reach us except the former Soviet Union and China, and if you'll recall, I think we have that covered. And have for 50 years. Would a missile shield have prevented 9/11? I rest my case.

Oh yeah, and STILL no plan to win the peace in Iraq. How you like me now? Care to comment on that, lazy conservative shills? I guess you've been Hannitized, or something.


Kerry has words written on the web site and yes I read them, they are not a real plan, is a bunch of wishes. Not really the same as a plan. It depends greatly on others doing exactly what Kerry wants them to do. He dose not show any plan for actually implementing these little details.
 
SRW said:
Kerry has words written on the web site and yes I read them, they are not a real plan, is a bunch of wishes. Not really the same as a plan. It depends greatly on others doing exactly what Kerry wants them to do. He dose not show any plan for actually implementing these little details.

Kerry's 3 step plan for success in Iraq:

I believe that failure is not an option in Iraq. But it is also true that failure is not an excuse for more of the same.

Here is how we must proceed.

First, we must create a stable and secure environment in Iraq. That will require a level of forces equal to the demands of the mission. To do this right, we have to truly internationalize both politically and militarily: we cannot depend on a US-only presence. In the short-term, however, if our commanders believe they need more American troops, they should say so and they should get them.

But more and more American soldiers cannot be the only solution. Other nations have a vital interest in the outcome and they must be brought in.

To accomplish this, we must do the hard work to get the world’s major political powers to join in this mission. To do so, the President must lead. He must build a political coalition of key countries, including the UK, France, Russia and China, the other permanent members of the UN Security Council, to share the political and military responsibilities and burdens of Iraq with the United States.

The coalition should endorse the Brahimi plan for an interim Iraqi government, it should propose an international High Commissioner to work with the Iraqi authorities on the political transition, and it should organize an expanded international security force, preferably with NATO, but clearly under US command.

Once these elements are in place, the coalition would then go to the UN for a resolution to ratify the agreement. The UN would provide the necessary legitimacy. The UN is not the total solution but it is a key that opens the door to participation by others.

In parallel, the President must also go to NATO members and others to contribute the additional military forces and to NATO to take on an organizing role. NATO is now a global security organization and Iraq must be one of its global missions.

To bring NATO members and others in, the President must immediately and personally reach out and convince them that Iraqi security and stability is a global interest that all must contribute to. He must also convince NATO as an organization that Iraq should be a NATO mission—a mission consistent with the principles of collective security that have formed the basis of the alliance’s remarkable history in the pursuit of peace and security.

To bring others in it is imperative we share responsibility and authority. When NATO members have been treated with respect, they have always – always – answered the call of duty. So too with other key contributors. Every one has a huge stake in whether Iraq survives its trial by fire or is consumed by fire and becomes a breeding ground for terror, intolerance and fear.

I know that some will say that this is an impossible task, but I believe it is doable with the right approach. We must lead but we must listen. We must use every tool of diplomacy and persuasion to bring others along.

I also understand that perhaps NATO cannot undertake the entire Iraq mission right away. But it could possibly take control of Iraq’s borders, take responsibility for Northern Iraq and/or the Polish sector, and train Iraq’s army. If NATO did this, it would free up as many as 20,000 American troops, and open the door for other countries outside of NATO to participate.

The immediate goal is to internationalize the transformation of Iraq, to get more foreign forces on the ground to share the risk and reduce the burden on our own forces. That is the only way to succeed in the mission while ending the sense of an American occupation.

We must take these steps because there is greater strength in greater numbers and stronger alliances. And failure to move forward will be seen as a failure of American leadership.


Second:

The second key element is the High Commissioner. Backed by a newly broadened security coalition, he should be charged with overseeing elections, the drafting of a constitution and coordinating reconstruction. The Commissioner should be highly regarded by the international community and have the credibility to talk to all the Iraqi people.

This Commissioner should be directed to work with Iraq’s interim government, the new US Ambassador, and the international community after June 30 to ensure a process that continues to move forward on the path toward sovereignty, while focusing on the immediate needs of the Iraqis themselves.

The Iraqi people desperately need financial and technical assistance that is not swallowed up by bureaucracy and no-bid contracts, but instead goes directly into the hands of grassroots organizations. They need to see the tangible benefits of reconstruction in the form of jobs, infrastructure, and services. And they need to be able to communicate their concerns to international authorities without feeling they are being insulted and disrespected in their own country.

Third:

We need a massive training effort to build Iraqi security forces that can actually provide security for the Iraqi people. We must accept that the effort to date has failed: it must be rethought and reformed. Training cannot be hurried. It must be done in the field and on the job as well as in the classroom. Units cannot be put on the street without backup from international security forces. They cannot be rushed into battle before they are ready.

This is a task to do in partnership with other nations, not just on our own. This is a task which must be successful. If we fail to create viable Iraqi security forces – military and police – there is no successful exit for us and other nations.

But why would others join a cause that they did not support in the first place? For one simple reason: it’s in their self-interest. For the Europeans, Iraq’s failure could endanger the security of their oil supplies, further radicalize their large Muslim populations, threaten destabilizing refugee flows, and seed a huge new source of terrorism.

And for Iraq’s neighbors, a civil war in Iraq could draw them in, put moderates in the region on the defensive and radicals on the rise. And a civil war could threaten the regimes in Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.

These compelling interests have always existed and they must now be the central piece of a diplomatic effort long overdue. Will a new approach in Iraq be difficult to achieve? Yes.
Is there a guarantee of success? No.

In light of all the mistakes that have been made, no one can say that success is certain, but I can say that if we do not try, failure is all too likely.

If the President will take the needed steps to share the burden and make progress in Iraq – if he leads – then I will support him on this issue.


http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0430.html

If that is not a plan, then what is?

I have yet to find such a plan from Bush.

edit: Perhaps I spoke too soon. The Bush plan can be found here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/05/20040524-10.html
 
Preemptively... Anyone inclined to takes potshots at the Kerry plan might first want to post the Bush plan.
 

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