Blair is on his own

[Troll]

This is scary, and surreal. From where I am sitting, not exposed to US propaganda, it looks to me like nearly the entire world is opposed to Bush. Apparently within America people think that the situation is such that not only is it neccesary to prove there is a majority opposed to Bush, but you don't even need to be sober to demonstrate there is no anti-Bush majority. Scary times. America, and Americans, appear to have completely lost the plot.

well in NATO alone only 2 countries are against him. That leaves a silent majority in favor. Adding Russia and China to those against leaves a total of 4 against to over 16 for.

I say silent majority because you just don't seem to get a chance to hear about them so much.

I also said that I personally don't need to be sober to see the flaws in your posts. well actually I asked if I even need to be, as I'm not 100% at the moment and yet I can see the bias in your posts

 

[Guest]

oh, and just to add to the yucks here. why is there a second resolution being offered and sent to the UN? To do what? appease the world?

To show some respect for international law.

Well there's a second resolution. Be appeased already or admit your true feelings.

I think I have made my true feelings very clear. America is the biggest threat to world peace and the biggest obstacle to acheiving international equality and stability. The American Empire must be brought down, and since they themselves do not recognise any rules, then there are no rules. The Bush administration was described by Harold Pinter as "A bunch of criminal lunatics." He was not wrong. There can be no appeasement of Bush. Sooner or later America will be held to account for its crimes.

 

[Troll]

To show some respect for international law.



I think I have made my true feelings very clear. America is the biggest threat to world peace and the biggest obstacle to acheiving international equality and stability. The American Empire must be brought down, and since they themselves do not recognise any rules, then there are no rules. The Bush administration was described by Harold Pinter as "A bunch of criminal lunatics." He was not wrong. There can be no appeasement of Bush. Sooner or later America will be held to account for its crimes.

well good. You've admitted you are anti-american. Thanks for your honesty

 

[Guest]

well actually I asked if I even need to be, as I'm not 100% at the moment and yet I can see the bias in your posts

have spent many years slowly getting more and more p**sed off with American foreign policy and the attitudes of American people. For me, trashing Kyoto because it "threatened US jobs" was the final straw. I cheered when then the WTC came down. I saw it as the first real sign of hope for the world. Finally somebody had provided a message to the US in the only language it is capable of understanding - that of violence and dollars.

If you think I sound like an extremist, and that my views are not echoed from one end of planet Earth to the other then I suspect you, like most Americans, have a very poor understanding of the way your country is percieved from outside. My views are reflected all over the globe. America is internationally despised.

 

[Troll]

have spent many years slowly getting more and more p**sed off with American foreign policy and the attitudes of American people. For me, trashing Kyoto because it "threatened US jobs" was the final straw. I cheered when then the WTC came down. I saw it as the first real sign of hope for the world. Finally somebody had provided a message to the US in the only language it is capable of understanding - that of violence and dollars.

If you think I sound like an extremist, and that my views are not echoed from one end of planet Earth to the other then I suspect you, like most Americans, have a very poor understanding of the way your country is percieved from outside. My views are reflected all over the globe. America is internationally despised.

Not at all. I understand your ilk quite well. I also understand that though that may be your view it's apparently not the view of your country as a whole. I understand that protesters in the US feel they are the majority when in fact they are not. It's about power. You lack it and crave it and create the falsehood of actually having it. My views are also reflected all over the globe. In france, in canada, in Mexico in china and russia. In every country there are those that feel the way I do. They're just not so uppity as your kind are so ya hear less from them. Big whoop.

 

[armageddonman]

Luckily, one can be against certain actions of the US government without cheering at the death of innocents.

UC, you've really lost it.

 

[Guest]

Luckily, one can be against certain actions of the US government without cheering at the death of innocents.

UC, you've really lost it.

I want you to understand the depth of anti-US feeling that exists in the world today.

The US government will change only when US public opinion changes. Bush needs to be put under as much pressure from US public opinion as Blair is from British public opinion.

What will it take to change US public opinion?

 

[Troll]

I want you to understand the depth of anti-US feeling that exists in the world today.

The US government will change only when US public opinion changes. Bush needs to be put under as much pressure from US public opinion as Blair is from British public opinion.

What will it take to change US public opinion?

People making more sense than you? Just a thought. Maybe realistic and viable reasons are a better way to change a persons mind than emotional outbursts?

Hey, what would it take to change your opinion?

 

[LeFevre]

have spent many years slowly getting more and more p**sed off with American foreign policy and the attitudes of American people. For me, trashing Kyoto because it "threatened US jobs" was the final straw. I cheered when then the WTC came down. I saw it as the first real sign of hope for the world. Finally somebody had provided a message to the US in the only language it is capable of understanding - that of violence and dollars.

If you think I sound like an extremist, and that my views are not echoed from one end of planet Earth to the other then I suspect you, like most Americans, have a very poor understanding of the way your country is percieved from outside. My views are reflected all over the globe. America is internationally despised.

though you may feel this way about (hopefully some and not all) Americans, cheering the deaths of innocence surprises me. It is rhetoric like what you posted that pushes folks towards a Jedi Knight attitude (not all but some). It is rhetoric like JK's exagerated lable filled diatribes that sadly seem to push folks (like it seems to have you UCE) toward this massive anti-Americanism, to the point where you cheer the deaths of thousands.

See through that sh!t dude.

 

[Dazza]

have spent many years slowly getting more and more p**sed off with American foreign policy and the attitudes of American people. For me, trashing Kyoto because it "threatened US jobs" was the final straw. I cheered when then the WTC came down. I saw it as the first real sign of hope for the world. Finally somebody had provided a message to the US in the only language it is capable of understanding - that of violence and dollars.

If you think I sound like an extremist, and that my views are not echoed from one end of planet Earth to the other then I suspect you, like most Americans, have a very poor understanding of the way your country is percieved from outside. My views are reflected all over the globe. America is internationally despised.

Since I've largely agreed with UCE up to this point, I just want to make it clear that I totally disagree with this post. I don't know anyone who wasn't shocked and appalled by what happened in New York. I am completely against the foreign policy of the US and the UK. That doesn't make me anti-American any more than it makes me anti-British.

UCE, you help nobody's cause by posting things like this.

 

[Guest]

though you may feel this way about (hopefully some and not all) Americans, cheering the deaths of innocence surprises me. It is rhetoric like what you posted that pushes folks towards a Jedi Knight attitude (not all but some). It is rhetoric like JK's exagerated lable filled diatribes that sadly seem to push folks (like it seems to have you UCE) toward this massive anti-Americanism, to the point where you cheer the deaths of thousands.

See through that sh!t dude.

JK comes across as a neo-nazi. "All children should salute the flag of the fatherland every day". JK is an extremist, but I get the distinct impression that he's not that much of an extremist.

Why did three times as many people demonstrate on the streets of London than on the streets of New York?

 

[Guest]

Since I've largely agreed with UCE up to this point, I just want to make it clear that I totally disagree with this post. I don't know anyone who wasn't shocked and appalled by what happened in New York. I am completely against the foreign policy of the US and the UK. That doesn't make me anti-American any more than it makes me anti-British.

UCE, you help nobody's cause by posting things like this.

Maybe you are right.

I am no politician. My background is that of a radical environmentalist. I saw Kyoto as the last hope for saving the world. Everybody signed it except the Americans. I saw this betrayal as unforgiveable. Americans don't seem to think it matters all that much.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps I should put it like this :

9/11 was shocking and appalling, but I know very well what kind of feelings drove Bin Laden and his followers to carry out such an act. America was in a state of total disbelief : "How could anyone hate us so much as to do this to us?". There was a different attitude elsewhere - a thinly veiled "it was horrible - but they were asking for it."

 

[Troll]

Maybe you are right.

I am no politician. My background is that of a radical environmentalist. I saw Kyoto as the last hope for saving the world. Everybody signed it except the Americans. I saw this betrayal as unforgiveable. Americans don't seem to think it matters all that much.

That's a blatant lie. Not everyone backed it. and some that did asked for and got concessions that left them untouched in some areas. For the longest time, Canada, Australia and the UK held off as well as the US. In fact it was less than a full year ago that I posted this link http://unfccc.int/resource/conv/ratlist.pdf and those countries including russia had not ratified.

 

[Troll]

Perhaps I should put it like this :

9/11 was shocking and appalling, but I know very well what kind of feelings drove Bin Laden and his followers to carry out such an act. America was in a state of total disbelief : "How could anyone hate us so much as to do this to us?". There was a different attitude elsewhere - a thinly veiled "it was horrible - but they were asking for it."

Nope. My view was "it finally happened." It's been happening all over. France, Germany, Israel, Spain and on and on. All those countries have had similar incidents . Maybe not leading to the number of deaths in one hit like we had. But they've had more hits over the years. It was only a matter of time. But the difference here is that we're not planning to let it continue

 

[Kodiak]

From where I am sitting...

...it looks to me like...

This is what you used to conclude that there is an anti-Bush international majority!?

You must really get around!

 

[Pak_43]

Dazza,

Thanks for the link...

And what the poll clearly shows is that:

"Fewer than one out of every 10 Britons believe it would be right for the country to take part in a war against Iraq without the UN passing a new resolution in favour of it, the survey suggests.

And 45% of people polled said the UK should play no part in a war on Iraq - whatever the UN decides"

And as I said in my previous post:

And your claim is now: can guarantee you that opinion is overwhelmingly against war without a clear UN mandate....which isn't what undercover said (or implied..)

So what do we have? It would appear clear from your polls that

A proportion of the population (let's have your figures of say 90%) is against the war without a 2nd mandate
(and based on your evidence let's say the same proportion of the UK labour party)

And a large minority (45% from your poll, if you wanted to twist some figures you might even get away with half) are against war with a 2nd mandate...


So the conclusion has to be that for just over half the population of the UK the issue isn't whether we go to war with Iraq but HOW they do it...
This is hardly the anti-american revolution that UCE is going on about is it??

From where I am sitting, not exposed to US propaganda, it looks to me like nearly the entire world is opposed to Bush

As I said in my first post:

I don't think you can make either "Most of his own party" or "90% of the public" stick as assertions...

and I still don't think he can.....

 

[Kodiak]

To show some respect for international law.

Sorry, but not at the cost of our sovereignty...

America is the biggest threat to world peace and the biggest obstacle to acheiving international equality and stability. The American Empire must be brought down...

You seem very adept at talking the talk...

There are several organizations around the world recruiting people just like you, UCE. Maybe you should check them out...

 

[Segnosaur]

have spent many years slowly getting more and more p**sed off with American foreign policy and the attitudes of American people. For me, trashing Kyoto because it "threatened US jobs" was the final straw.

Someone from Britian does NOT have the moral high ground when it comes to Kyoto.

The way Kyoto is arranged, members have to reduce their production of carbon dioxide levels relative to the amount produced a decade ago. Problem is, Britian has pretty much matched those targets, because previous governments had cut back on coal production (not because of the environment, but because they were not economical.) Thus, Britian doesn't really need to do anything for Kyoto. (Same with countries like Germany, where they've pretty much met their targets just by closing down inefficent Eastern Germany industries.)

Another problems with Kyoto is that it doesn't really address the developing world and their pollution record.

And what is the punishment for failing to live up to Kyoto? Do you really think all the people who have ratified it will really have the ability to live up to it? And what if they don't? Kyoto was pretty much a feel-good document with no real brains behind it.

It also ignores the ability of technological development in the U.S. and other western contries to overcome problems in the world.

I cheered when then the WTC came down.

Ok, I could be going out on a limb here, but I think you've just alienated all the people who may have agreed with you to this point.

 

[Guest]

Ok, I could be going out on a limb here, but I think you've just alienated all the people who may have agreed with you to this point.

Very likely.

I didn't cheer. I was as horrified as everybody else was. But I understand why it happened.