Blacklight Power

[Astrodude]

Blacklight Power has been an apparently financially successful "free energy" startup by a Randell Mills, a medical doctor turned Physicist and Chemist. The company's flagship claim is their manufacture of the "hydrino", a hydrogen atom with an electron below ground state. They claim to be able to solve all sorts of energy crises. This isn't that unusual, but the capital they've accrued from two decades is impressive, about $60,000,000. They claim to have several contracts to build hydrino generators and revolutionize energy.

I would love few things more than scientific achievement on the scale that Mills promises, but I've noticed one big problem: Most of the companies don't appear to exist. They're legal entities, but they don't have websites, sales reports, or even employees. The most legitimate one is Akridge Energy. It appears to be part of a real estate company called Akridge that actually exists. Still, there is no real evidence of a division called Akridge Energy. It's as though they have imaginary business partners. Estacado Energy Services, one of two New Mexico-based customers supplying Blacklight, is also a subsidiary of Roosevelt County Electric Cooperative. This is normal because it is a rural area, but what is strange is that Roosevelt County Electric Cooperative only has about 39 employees and sales far shy of a million dollars. Estacado Energy is probably a one man operation.

 

[Madalch]

The company's flagship claim is their manufacture of the "hydrino", a hydrogen atom with an electron below ground state.

That would suggest that the hydrino is more stable than a hydrogen atom. If this were true, why isn't hydrogen always in the form of a hydrino? And how do you get energy -out- of something that's more stable than normal? You'd have to put energy into it to turn it into normal hydrogen to do anything with it.

 

[Bishadi]

Blacklight Power has been an apparently financially successful "free energy" startup by a Randell Mills, a medical doctor turned Physicist and Chemist. The company's flagship claim is their manufacture of the "hydrino", a hydrogen atom with an electron below ground state. They claim to be able to solve all sorts of energy crises. This isn't that unusual, but the capital they've accrued from two decades is impressive, about $60,000,000. They claim to have several contracts to build hydrino generators and revolutionize energy.

I would love few things more than scientific achievement on the scale that Mills promises, but I've noticed one big problem: Most of the companies don't appear to exist. They're legal entities, but they don't have websites, sales reports, or even employees. The most legitimate one is Akridge Energy. It appears to be part of a real estate company called Akridge that actually exists. Still, there is no real evidence of a division called Akridge Energy. It's as though they have imaginary business partners. Estacado Energy Services, one of two New Mexico-based customers supplying Blacklight, is also a subsidiary of Roosevelt County Electric Cooperative. This is normal because it is a rural area, but what is strange is that Roosevelt County Electric Cooperative only has about 39 employees and sales far shy of a million dollars. Estacado Energy is probably a one man operation.

Lots to read on Mills.

Some dont like him and i am beginning too

Note the wiki quote;

"Mills claims that much of standard particle physics, while having experimental validation, should be rejected due to its reliance on overfitting:[11]

The Dirac equation does not reconcile this situation. Many additional shortcomings arise such as instability to radiation, negative kinetic energy states, intractable infinities, virtual particles at every point in space, self-interaction, the Klein paradox, violation of Einstein causality, and 'spooky' action at a distance. Despite its successes, quantum mechanics (QM) has remained mysterious to all who have encountered it. Starting with Bohr and progressing into the present, the departure from intuitive, physical reality has widened. The connection between quantum mechanics and reality is more than just a "philosophical" issue. It reveals that quantum mechanics is not a correct or complete theory of the physical world and that inescapable internal inconsistencies and incongruities arise when attempts are made to treat it as a physical as opposed to a purely mathematical 'tool.'
""




How many here have read the GUT-CP?


I will bet, not ONE.

 

[sol invictus]

Blacklight Power has been an apparently financially successful "free energy" startup by a Randell Mills, a medical doctor turned Physicist and Chemist. The company's flagship claim is their manufacture of the "hydrino", a hydrogen atom with an electron below ground state. They claim to be able to solve all sorts of energy crises. This isn't that unusual, but the capital they've accrued from two decades is impressive, about $60,000,000. They claim to have several contracts to build hydrino generators and revolutionize energy.

I would love few things more than scientific achievement on the scale that Mills promises, but I've noticed one big problem: Most of the companies don't appear to exist. They're legal entities, but they don't have websites, sales reports, or even employees. The most legitimate one is Akridge Energy. It appears to be part of a real estate company called Akridge that actually exists. Still, there is no real evidence of a division called Akridge Energy. It's as though they have imaginary business partners. Estacado Energy Services, one of two New Mexico-based customers supplying Blacklight, is also a subsidiary of Roosevelt County Electric Cooperative. This is normal because it is a rural area, but what is strange is that Roosevelt County Electric Cooperative only has about 39 employees and sales far shy of a million dollars. Estacado Energy is probably a one man operation.

Where did you get the $60,000,000 figure? Is it any more reliable than the "physics" the idea is based on?

How many here have read the GUT-CP?


I will bet, not ONE.

What is "the GUT-CP", Bishadi?

 

[Bishadi]

Where did you get the $60,000,000 figure? Is it any more reliable than the "physics" the idea is based on?

i saw a 70 million

What is "the GUT-CP", Bishadi?

mills book

 

[ThunderChunky]

Blacklight power is crap. They have been around for a while and have done nothing but make publicity for themselves.

 

[Weak Kitten]

It's a scam, and apparently a fairly old (1992) and well run scam. Don't bother looking it up on wiki, the article is completely bland and I wouldn't be surprised if they had people grooming Wikipedia to keep the scam going.

There are articles and forum discussions about this going quite far back and they all seem to boil down to the same thing. Actual atomic physicists who have looked at the numbers seem to be saying that they don't add up properly and don't cover a bunch of known atomic behaviors.

 

[Bishadi]

It's a scam, and apparently a fairly old (1992) and well run scam. Don't bother looking it up on wiki, the article is completely bland and I wouldn't be surprised if they had people grooming Wikipedia to keep the scam going.

There are articles and forum discussions about this going quite far back and they all seem to boil down to the same thing. Actual atomic physicists who have looked at the numbers seem to be saying that they don't add up properly and don't cover a bunch of known atomic behaviors.

There is the against version.

Now how about the '4"?


i.e ...... is cold fusion related?

Then the scope is,(without the peanut gallery additions) per wiki


In the hydrogen atom, these states are postulated to have an effective radius of 1/p of the ground state radius, with p being limited by the speed of light to a positive integer less than or equal to 137.[4]:31, 207 He terms these below-ground hydrogen atoms 'hydrinos'. Mills' mechanism consists of a non-radiative energy transfer between a hydrogen atom and a catalyst that is capable of absorbing a certain amount of energy. The total energy Mills says is released for hydrino transitions is large compared to the chemical burning of hydrogen, but less than nuclear reactions. Mills claims that limitations on confinement and terrestrial conditions have prevented the achievement of hydrino states below 1/30, which would correspond to an energy release of approximately 15 keV per hydrogen atom


Nothing magical or new other than a catalyst (who knows what it is?) and H react with at a 'state' (????) (i suggest a specific wavelength is absorbed (non-radiative energy (resonant energy transfer basically)), Then the H (hydrino is like a open state of Hydrogen for burning, if not, it should be), but that reaction is supposedly hotter than just H and O, apparently)

So his idea must be to expose the 'catalyst' and hydrogen, he is creating a 'hydrino'.... which is the store-'able' fuel but that reaction is his objective apparently. The key is, he believes he can put less energy into the production of the 'hydrino release'.

i noticed the patent on a microwave producing item. (magnetron produces ONE wavelength).


Or maybe that catalyst and Hydrino are what cause the reaction and it has another step (create the catalyst and the hydrino) before the reaction.

Either way, i can understand 'it could work'. The scope of his (Mills) whole 'general universe' i am not standing on in any way.


But, i do believe the cold fusion and the above hydrino ideas could work.



..

 

[sol invictus]

It's a scam, and apparently a fairly old (1992) and well run scam. Don't bother looking it up on wiki, the article is completely bland and I wouldn't be surprised if they had people grooming Wikipedia to keep the scam going.

There are articles and forum discussions about this going quite far back and they all seem to boil down to the same thing. Actual atomic physicists who have looked at the numbers seem to be saying that they don't add up properly and don't cover a bunch of known atomic behaviors.

Oh, the whole idea is impossible physically. There's no question about that.

If it were possible, it would be extremely dangerous.

 

[Bishadi]

Oh, the whole idea is impossible physically. There's no question about that.

Another against and above you proved you havent even read the material.

If it were possible, it would be extremely dangerous.

Give a why on both of your claims.

 

[catsmate]

It's a scam, and apparently a fairly old (1992) and well run scam. Don't bother looking it up on wiki, the article is completely bland and I wouldn't be surprised if they had people grooming Wikipedia to keep the scam going.

There are articles and forum discussions about this going quite far back and they all seem to boil down to the same thing. Actual atomic physicists who have looked at the numbers seem to be saying that they don't add up properly and don't cover a bunch of known atomic behaviors.

Yes. I remember being asked about something like this in the late nineties by a co-worker. It was rubbish then and chemistry hasn't changed to allow this rubbish now.

 

[Walter Wayne]

The $70,000,000 number is the venture capital. I believe this is still a private company, and the venture capatalists have so far got 0 money out. 0% is a far cry from successful.

Walt

P.S. And as far as the venture capital number goes, that may be just Randell Mills' number.

 

[Horatius]

That would suggest that the hydrino is more stable than a hydrogen atom. If this were true, why isn't hydrogen always in the form of a hydrino? And how do you get energy -out- of something that's more stable than normal? You'd have to put energy into it to turn it into normal hydrogen to do anything with it.

His claim (at least currently) is that he uses a catalyst of some sort to make regular hydrogen into hydrinos. As the hydrino supposedly has a lower energy state than the hydrogen, this process would produce energy, and it is this energy he claims to be harnessing.

 

[Evilgiraffe]

As far as I'm aware^*, catalysts facilitate reactions by lowering or circumventing the activation barrier. Most reactions will go without a catalyst, having one simply makes them more efficient and economical.

Mills is claiming a reaction that absolutely will not go without his magic catalyst, hence the activation energy for this transformation must be absolutely bloody enormous since we don't see hydrogen spontaneously converting to hydrinos. He may have found a material that circumvents this barrier but I think it's..... unlikely.

^*I'm currently working for my PhD in the field of catalysis. If I'm wrong about this, it'll be embarassing but I'll probably survive

 

[dafydd]

But, i do believe the cold fusion and the above hydrino ideas could work.



..

What you believe has no bearing upon reality.

 

[sol invictus]

As far as I'm aware^*, catalysts facilitate reactions by lowering or circumventing the activation barrier. Most reactions will go without a catalyst, having one simply makes them more efficient and economical.

Mills is claiming a reaction that absolutely will not go without his magic catalyst, hence the activation energy for this transformation must be absolutely bloody enormous since we don't see hydrogen spontaneously converting to hydrinos. He may have found a material that circumvents this barrier but I think it's..... unlikely.

^*I'm currently working for my PhD in the field of catalysis. If I'm wrong about this, it'll be embarassing but I'll probably survive

It's not just unlikely, it's as impossible as just about anything I can think of. The hydrogen atom has been thoroughly understood for about 90 years. Everything from extremely sensitive lab tests to very high energy collider experiments to nuclear fuson to supernova to big bang nucleosynthesis supports our model for it. And according to that model, it is impossible for there to be any state with energy below that of the standard ground state.

If there were a lower energy state, no matter how high the barrier, ground state hydrogen could tunnel to it (without a catalyst). But huge collections of hydrogen atoms (10²³ and more) never exhibit such tunneling - not one atom tunnels.

If there were a lower energy state, why has it never shown up in any astrophysical observations, despite the fact that hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe? Why wasn't it populated in supernova? Why didn't hydrogen end up in that state after it first formed? Why is it that when one combines an electron with a proton it quickly settles down to the standard ground state, and never to this lower energy state? Etc. etc.

 

[Evilgiraffe]

Thanks Sol. It's wrong on so many levels that it's difficult to choose one to pull to pieces.

 

[Aepervius]

If that would be the case, it would be EASY to demonstrate. Give the "catalyst" to labor so taht they can characterize hydrino. But hey....

The "catalyst" has sqare quote, because a catalyst is *NOT* giving energy for a reaction to occurs. A catalyst is only making an enthalpy of activation lower by giving a substrate support for the formation energy to be lower (platinum IIRC has this mode of action for water formation) or they enter as an intermediate product and are recycled as in in an A->B reaction with a certain enthalpy of activation, A+cata->C and C->Cata+B where both enthalpy of activation are lower and thus easier to produce. Remark on the cata is recycled.

What THEY pretend is that they have some MAGIC substance which allow them to produce hydrogen at a lower level than the ground level , called hydrino. But that could not be a catalyst because the energy would STILL be missing from the equation (the energy the system give off when going from suposedly H+cata->Hydrino).

Furthermore that would still leave "Hydrino" ashes which would be easy to characterise and differentiate to H. Unless they pretend the hydrino is immediately getting energy from the environment to go back to H.

Last time I had looked at their PDF article with the nice eliptical orbital, I laughed myself very hard. Their article was more or less classical physic without much of QM.

So yes. Scam. Thru and thru.

 

[Aepervius]

It's not just unlikely, it's as impossible as just about anything I can think of. The hydrogen atom has been thoroughly understood for about 90 years. Everything from extremely sensitive lab tests to very high energy collider experiments to nuclear fuson to supernova to big bang nucleosynthesis supports our model for it. And according to that model, it is impossible for there to be any state with energy below that of the standard ground state.

If there were a lower energy state, no matter how high the barrier, ground state hydrogen could tunnel to it (without a catalyst). But huge collections of hydrogen atoms (10²³ and more) never exhibit such tunneling - not one atom tunnels.

If there were a lower energy state, why has it never shown up in any astrophysical observations, despite the fact that hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe? Why wasn't it populated in supernova? Why didn't hydrogen end up in that state after it first formed? Why is it that when one combines an electron with a proton it quickly settles down to the standard ground state, and never to this lower energy state? Etc. etc.

That is another good points. But good points never stopped BL proponent.

You know the type "you are a dogmatic idiot which think everything beside your 'science' is heretic" , "he will be suppressed by men in black" etc...

 

[Horatius]

I'd be interested in some responses to articles they've posted here:

http://www.blacklightpower.com/new.shtml

Particularly the second one down, from 11/29/10, "GEN3 Partners and Harvard Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA) Scientists have confirmed the light signature of hydrino formation, high-energy radiation emitted as the electron of the hydrogen atom undergoes a transition below what was previously considered the lowest energy state."

There's been some suggestions that they've misrepresented the relationships between these researchers, and I'm wondering if anyone here can comment on the physics. It's a bit beyond my level, I'm afraid.