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Black Smoke=Incomplete Combustion?

Travis said:
Congratulations. You just proved wildfires don't exist.

Smokey The Bear was a scam!
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911 truth must be in a contest, who can post the dumbest statement.

Was someone comparing office fires to green wood? Jet fuel is green wood?

Plastic has 10 times the heat energy of thermite, that is significant, the terrorists, those "MIB inside job guys" should have put more plastic in the WTC... wait, computers, monitors, carpet, ... never-mind.

Plastic burns with black smoke...
 
beachnut said:
911 truth must be in a contest, who can post the dumbest statement.

Was someone comparing office fires to green wood? Jet fuel is green wood?

Plastic has 10 times the heat energy of thermite, that is significant, the terrorists, those "MIB inside job guys" should have put more plastic in the WTC... wait, computers, monitors, carpet, ... never-mind.

Plastic burns with black smoke...
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black smoke also = more stuff about to catch fire! As I proved to him in the video I posted. Its amusing to see the troll movement try to drill down to find any perceived inconsistency, In their weak attempts Not to prove a conspiracy, But to show a condition where in theory a component of a conspicacy can possibly occur. But when you put all these ill conceived "gotchas" together, the whole conspiracy falls on its face. It is like watching "An Idiot Abroad" and laughing at every event he gets caught up in.
 
ergo said:
And this is just utter b.s.

Myriad, you don't actually know what you're talking about, do you? :D
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And this is just utter b.s.

ergo, you don't actually know what you're talking about, do you? :D
 
ergo said:
Feel free to back up Myriad's statement, tsig.
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It is called science, you don't do science, you prefer lies and idiotic claims made up by idiots in 911 truth.

Even with black smoke, the WTC tower fires (not counting the jet fuel) were equal in heat to 5,000 TONS of Thermite.

The jet fuel in each jet was only equal to 315 tons of Thermite, and that is why NIST called the jet fuel fires insignificant.

IE. 630 tons of Thermite are insignificant to 5,000 tons of Thermite.

Why would you need to bring thermite to a fire which releases more heat than 5,000 tons of Thermite?

Exactly, 911 truth does not do math, and 911 truth does not do science. You confirm this fact ... you do it effortlessly.
 
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ergo said:
Feel free to back up Myriad's statement, tsig.
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Did you even look at the video of the NIST test fire? Something tells me you haven't, or that you have gone into some sort of disasocietive state because it conflicts too badly with the lie you are sure is the truth.
 
ergo said:
And this is just utter b.s.

Myriad, you don't actually know what you're talking about, do you? :D
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Ergo, if, God forbid, you're ever in a situation facing a decision like the one I described, you are free to choose the closed room full of opaque black smoke over the ventilated one with bright visible flames, if that's what you prefer to believe or pretend to believe. I suggest looking at video and data recordings from room fire tests first, which are amply available. You might also wish to ask firefighters why even when wearing respirators, they ventilate spaces (thus feeding more oxygen to the fires within) before entering them to fight the fire. But all that's up to you.

The upside of choosing the smoke over the flames is that you'd never have to listen to me say "I told you so."

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
ergo said:
Feel free to back up Myriad's statement, tsig.
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listen to the guy calling out the temperature as the smoke builds. Notice the floor to ceiling temp differential and how the differential diminishes as the smoke gets thicker. When the smoke is at its heaviest and the temp at the floor and ceiling becomes the same.... What happens?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UkU-jfLaHY&t=3m20s
 
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ergo said:
Because the smoke is ghastly? :rolleyes:

Given that a 9/11 "debunker" will find any way he/she can to assert that black is white and up is down, it doesn't surprise me at all that GlennB has found some way to "debunk" the "green wood smokes more than it burns" argument.
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That wasn't my argument at all, though it doesn't surprise me to see you totally mis-represent what I was saying. The point is that a smoky fire can still be very hot, a point you had denied with your "toasting weiners" comment.
 
A W Smith said:
listen to the guy calling out the temperature as the smoke builds. Notice the floor to ceiling temp differential and how the differential diminishes as the smoke gets thicker. When the smoke is at its heaviest and the temp at the floor and ceiling becomes the same.... What happens?
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Ergo is welcome to open the door and have a look inside if he wants, I will be running for cover.
 
I love how you can show truthers that black smoke doesnt mean a low temperature fire and they still insist otherwise.
 
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Myriad said:
Basically, you guessed it. The room where you can clearly see areas of flame must be either ventilated, or has not been burning long enough to change the atmosphere much. Either way, the air is not (yet) superheated, so you can survive passing through the room. What will burn you is radiation from the flames, and clothing will protect you from that to some extent. (Note that this is how interior fire is usually depicted in TV and movie scenes where a hero must escape a burning room or rescue someone from it: patches of bright fire with clear air and clear paths between them. It's not very realistic to encounter such conditions for very long.)

The room filled with black opaque smoke is more typical of a fully involved enclosed interior space. Combustion has slowed because the air is depleted of oxygen but in the process a high temperature has been reached. There may also be flames, but you can't see them through the smoke. The same lack of ventilation that slows the combustion (and causes "incomplete combustion") also traps the heat. Just being in contact with that superheated air will burn you. Inhale it, and your lungs are destroyed. Even opening a door to enter such a room could kill you, as the air admitted by the door causes the superheated smoke to deflagrate (the "backdraft explosion").

In either room, your chances are better if you crawl.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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Absolutely 100% correct. The black acrid smoke will displace more oxygen than a fully involved fire, since a fully involved has a good source of oxygen.
 
A W Smith said:
listen to the guy calling out the temperature as the smoke builds. Notice the floor to ceiling temp differential and how the differential diminishes as the smoke gets thicker. When the smoke is at its heaviest and the temp at the floor and ceiling becomes the same.... What happens?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UkU-jfLaHY&t=3m20s
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OH!! (RAISE HAND) PICK ME !!! PICK ME!!! I know that answer!!!

Let's see if Ergo knows......:D
 
Its all irrelevant cow pies.no explosives could survive more than an instant after impact, so all this talk of temperatures is mindless drivel.
 
The Vietcong had a good way of collecting TNT for demolitions operations. They would find dud American bombs and artillery rounds and open them up with a hack saw and chip out the TNT and melt it in a skillet over a camp fire and cast it into the desired size and shape of charge.

If it got too hot in the skillet, it would just catch fire and burn harmlessly, unless some fool made the mistake of stirring it vigorously while it was at a critical temperature.

It does not take a lot of heat to render an explosive device inoperable. Most of them burn quite harmlessly.
 
Im just spiking the ball here

Mopping the floor with ergo
ergo said:
And God only knows what point Myriad thinks s/he's making. Was I saying that smoke is harmless to human health?? No, I wasn't, but that doesn't stop the intrepid 9/11 "debunker" from "debunking" it anyway!
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Myriad said:
The amount of combustion occurring, not how "complete" the combustion is, determines the amount of heat and destructive effects produced by a fire. A lot of incomplete combustion (which is typical in any fuel-rich fire) is a lot more dangerous than a little bit of complete combustion. This is as simple as noting that five half-full buckets of sand will make a bigger pile than one full bucket.

I wouldn't bother but misconceptions about fire can be lethal in emergency situations. Let's suppose you're in a building on fire and you have two possible exit routes. One route is through a room containing several areas of bright clearly visible flame. The other is through a room with no visible flame but completely filled with opaque black smoke (indicating "incomplete combustion"). Assume you can hold your breath.
Choose based on ergo's principles (which would hold that the smoke room must be cooler) and you will die.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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