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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

Futures trading is not a problem per se. It is perfectly normal these days for almost anything you can imagine, including currency. You can literally trade futures for the value of the yen vs the dollar. The problem was just how it was handled.

Anyway, that was not a basis for my analogy, since, AGAIN, I didn't do an argument from analogy in the first place. It was just a comparison between two things involved in a bubble. Bitcoin being involved in a bubble was the premise, not the conclusion. Nothing else was assumed to be common between the two. In fact, yes, it was more of a counterpoint than an analogy, since my whole point was that at least during the tulip craze you could actually get a tulip bulb, which you could use to get a flower and more bulbs, so it actually was an investment.

And yes, Bitcoin was already a bubble. Bitcoin was worth $126,198 in Dec 2025, and it had crashed to $52,144 by June 2026. That's as provable a bubble burst as you get. I don't need an analogy to make that case, when I have the actual hard numbers.

Maybe this will help some people's comprehension.
 
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call it what you want, he just doesn't like comparing it to tulip mania because it makes bitcoin look stupid, but can't dispute there's a bunch of similarities

another difference between bitcoin and tulip mania is tulips didn't produce more tulips that were actually just pump and dump schemes
 
To be fair, the Dutch did try a similar stunt with a new breed of Hyacinth, but it was very short lived and never got anywhere near the extremes of the tulip bubble. So I guess that's your DogeCoin spinoff version :P
 
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ok, first speculative bubble followed by first pump and dump scheme. could try and find some more similarities. did anyone trade tulip bulbs for child porn?
 
Not sure, since that wasn't forbidden at the time anyway. There was no reason to hide it behind some pseudo-coin. But they were traded for just about everything. Houses, livestock, fertile farmland, a ship, etc. Just about anything you could buy with coin you could trade one of those futures contracts for.

Which is another dissimilarity to bitcoin, come to think of it. Those pieces of paper actually were as good as the official coin for anything. (Well, anything past a very high price. There weren't 'satoshi' fractions of a bulb :P )
 
Also, not sure I'd call the Hyacinth stuff the first pump and dump, since the South Sea bubble had beaten it to the punch by a decade. So did the Mississippi bubble in France. And while I wouldn't call the South Sea bubble as a whole a pump and dump or rug-pull, certain individuals involved in it did just that. Or just ran away with the investors' money.
 
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Futures trading for speculation and not just as a hedge is a huge, if not the, problem of modern trading.
It has killed tens if not hundreds of thousands through speculation with essential goods and foods.
It's also dangerous to financial stability due to being easily leveraged
 
psionl0 said:
Bitcoin gets most of its value from speculation (a lot of assets do). But it still has to have some use other than speculation for it to attract speculators and to keep speculators interested.
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'Some' use, but not nearly enough to justify the price. Most speculators are attracted solely by the opportunity for speculation - which is why it's so volatile.

Like I said, "nothing".
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So you deny that Bitcoin's price has deviated from its intrinsic value?
 
dirtywick said:
probably too late to edit to fix it for yourself, but don’t act like you’re fixing it for me

is this a counter point or an analogy?
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GOTO 5024

dirtywick said:
call it what you want, he just doesn't like comparing it to tulip mania because it makes bitcoin look stupid, but can't dispute there's a bunch of similarities

another difference between bitcoin and tulip mania is tulips didn't produce more tulips that were actually just pump and dump schemes
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That is stupid beyond belief. You know that tulip mania wasn't about the tulips themselves but about tulip futures yet you still desperately try to cling on to this lousy analogy.
 
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HansMustermann said:
And yes, Bitcoin was already a bubble. Bitcoin was worth $126,198 in Dec 2025, and it had crashed to $52,144 by June 2026. That's as provable a bubble burst as you get.
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There have been many such "bubble bursts" in the history of bitcoin. Of course, you won't dare to say what happened after each one.
 
psionl0 said:
GOTO 5024


That is stupid beyond belief. You know that tulip mania wasn't about the tulips themselves but about tulip futures yet you still desperately try to cling on to this lousy analogy.
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what's stupid beyond belief is this lousy counterpoint you're trying to what may be the best analogy i've ever seen in my life
 
dirtywick said:
what's stupid beyond belief is this lousy counterpoint you're trying to what may be the best analogy i've ever seen in my life
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That is even stupider. There is absolutely nothing similar about a digital asset and speculating on the future price of tulips hundreds of years ago.
 
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psionl0 said:
That is even stupider. There is absolutely nothing similar about a digital asset and speculating on the future price of tulips hundreds of years ago.
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That's about as silly as saying there's nothing in common between digital cash (which is how all banks do it now) and having a bag full of gulden florins back then. Or between speculating on futures online today and doing it with bits of paper back then.

Technology changes, makes things easier, but some things remain the same. Speculating on futures is still the same today as it was in the 17'th century... except more regulated today. But otherwise the basic act is the same.

Or do you also believe that paying a (probably just pubescent) woman for sex in ancient Mesopotamia (cf Herodotus) was fundamentally different from today because you didn't pay her online in Bitcoin, but actually had to give her a coin?
 
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psionl0 said:
That is even stupider. There is absolutely nothing similar about a digital asset and speculating on the future price of tulips hundreds of years ago.
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the similarity is people are speculating on the future price of bitcoin, so a lot of people compare it the time people were speculating on the future price of tulips. that's why it's such a great analogy.
 
Andy_Ross said:
The Free Republic of Liberland

Meet the crypto billionaires building a world where money buys you a vote

www.bbc.co.uk

Meet the crypto billionaires building a world where money buys you a vote

They think democracy has run its course - so they're setting up their own nations instead.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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"Usually, people who believe in freedom, decentralised finances and so on, they tend to be from the upper class of society," Pernar tells me. "If you make zero selection and you say whoever comes on [the] boat is welcome, we would end up like [the] UK. We don't want that."
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no blacks allowed
 
This same blockchain technology is being used to run Liberland's government and one day, if Sun gets his way, it could run ours too. Citizens vote on laws and referendums using digital tokens, and the voting itself is automatically tallied and enforced by code, rather than counted by officials. In reality, though, the technology is still in its juvenile phase, and human officials are still required to implement laws.
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another stupid comment that bugs me about the media and crypto. first of all, it's not in it's juvenile phase, this stuff is 20 years old. and second, crypto isn't ever going to be implementing laws, what is this reporter thinking when they're telling him they'll use blockchain instead of laws to rule the world as ceo-kings. these people are ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ insane

yeah but anyway, crypto is great.

another differece too, that ◊◊◊◊ never happened with tulips either. whoever had the most tulips would be the god king of liberland lol
 
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