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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

i’m describing an investment that doesn’t appreciate by any other means other than new investment a ponzi

and i will not be discussing this any further.
 
i agree, i should have stopped much earlier. i usually do when i start repeating myself to someone talking past me. but whatever, can't get that time back.
 
web3.lifeitself.org

Ponzinomics

Introductions to key concepts and ideas in crypto and web3. Plus in-depth evaluation of its potential impact.
web3.lifeitself.org

some further reading to reiterate everything i attempted to cover.


here is a q&a site that addresses everything brought up in this thread better than i have explained myself. i agree with everything on the site. again i will not be discussing this further. feel free to read it or not
 
dirtywick said:
web3.lifeitself.org

Ponzinomics

Introductions to key concepts and ideas in crypto and web3. Plus in-depth evaluation of its potential impact.
web3.lifeitself.org
Click to expand...
"A term commonly used to describe crypto asset investment schemes which are is-negative-sum investments which exist to enrich a pool of insiders, much like a Ponzi scheme".

Bitcoin doesn't have a "pool of insiders".
 
dirtywick said:
thoroughly addressed in the many links on the site.
Click to expand...
The "best" of these links that you post a link to claims that "the operators take away a large portion of this money (spent on bitcoin)" but does not identify the operators and it is blatantly false anyway. Exchanges may charge fees for their use and miners get paid a fee for each transfer they add to the blockchain but these are small compared to the average number of bitcoins involved in a transfer.

Pure confirmation bias.
 
is this demolishing the arguments again?

first of all, i was being rude when this discussion started, so i'll apologize for that. and even though i may lack some clarity sometimes, since i'm not a financial expert but i guy who read a lot and has an opinion, how little effort you put in to even understanding the argument being made and handwaving it away in a sentence like that is somewhat frustrating. however, i should not let that dictate how i'm responding to it. so, there's that.

moving on, this is why i'm not discussing it anymore. there's a lot of really detailed arguments and information there and every time you respond it seems as though you've barely read it and haven't offered anything substantive about any of it. like i said, read it or don't, i don't care.
 
dirtywick said:
is this demolishing the arguments again?

first of all, i was being rude when this discussion started, so i'll apologize for that. and even though i may lack some clarity sometimes, since i'm not a financial expert but i guy who read a lot and has an opinion, how little effort you put in to even understanding the argument being made and handwaving it away in a sentence like that is somewhat frustrating. however, i should not let that dictate how i'm responding to it. so, there's that.

moving on, this is why i'm not discussing it anymore. there's a lot of really detailed arguments and information there and every time you respond it seems as though you've barely read it and haven't offered anything substantive about any of it. like i said, read it or don't, i don't care.
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I actually do read your links but they never address the fundamental question. Who are the operators of bitcoin (I don't need their names and addresses) and in what specific ways are they operating bitcoin?

Note that individuals trying to talk up the price of bitcoin (whether they hold any or not) do not count as "operators" of bitcoin. Exchanges and miners taking a "rake" of each transaction does not make them "operators" of bitcoin

Yes, whales can influence the price of bitcoin through bulk buying or selling but that doesn't make them "operators" of bitcoin.

Bitcoin may have many shortcomings (and I have discussed them extensively) but that doesn't make it a "pyramid" or "ponzi" or "scam" or any other bad word that you might wish to apply to it.
 
again there's a ton of material there going into exhaustive detail why it's a scam, and i think it's a pretty comprehensive and convincing argument addressing everything that was said in the thread and full of a ton of sources you can fact check. while i'm sure it's probably a lot easier to pick apart my poor rephrasing of what's there, i'm well aware not going to be able to explain that any better than what's there.

but, at least as far as who's operating it, who's operating your browser? it just follows it's code, right? you click there, it does this. double click, it does that. that's how bitcoin is operating. the rules of the program, how it's coded to work, works the same as a ponzi scheme. that's it.
 
dirtywick said:
again there's a ton of material there going into exhaustive detail why it's a scam, and i think it's a pretty comprehensive and convincing argument addressing everything that was said in the thread and full of a ton of sources you can fact check.
Click to expand...
They are mostly opinion pieces and the only reason you think the arguments are "comprehensive and convincing" is because they align with your own opinions on bitcoin.

dirtywick said:
but, at least as far as who's operating it, who's operating your browser? it just follows it's code, right? you click there, it does this. double click, it does that. that's how bitcoin is operating. the rules of the program, how it's coded to work, works the same as totally different to a ponzi scheme. that's it.
Click to expand...
ftfy.
 
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dirtywick said:
this is the recap. it’s not a ponzi. it appreciates in value because of demand, meaning that somebody will buy it for more than you paid. which requires new investment to pay old investment. there is no other mechanism for it to appreciate

but it’s not a ponzi. lol
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Technically speaking it isn't. To be a ponzi scheme bitcoin would have had to get to the ever expanding downline phase of the scam.
 
steenkh said:
I believe that criminals use the coins not as an investment but as a payment system that can’t be tracked. Normal people tend not to use it as payment anymore, because the Bitcoin value goes mostly up, and it is a hassle to constantly have to check the going rate.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bitcoin is a high risk investment, and that every investor could lose a ton of money with it, but there is no Ponzi scheme here: there is no borrowing involved, or attempt to lure more people to invest, and nobody is behind all this raking in the profits, except the investors themselves, and the miners.
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Then they don't understand bitcoin. It is the most easily trackable payment system around as every transaction is public by design.
 
dirtywick said:
gains from new investors? no other mechanism?

edit

not the same as gold. granted there is a speculative aspect with gold, difference is with gold you can input labor
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And gold also has utility independent of its valuation. It can be made into jewelry and has applications in the electronics and computer industries (and doubtless some more].
 
dirtywick said:
i had an idea for a legitimate investment opportunity. basically, via the magic of the block chain, i have a guy that’ll paint 21 million paintings of you pay for a lot of his electricity, to create value through scarcity. and he’ll send these paintings anywhere in the world for free kind of quickly. and you can trade these paintings for money or other paintings. or just hold onto them, they’re scarce after all

does that sound dumb or worth a trillion dollars?
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NFTs didn't include ownership rights to the "art" in most cases. All you got was a document which stated you owned the part of the blockchain which contained a url link to a jpeg picture of the "art".
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
And gold also has utility independent of its valuation. It can be made into jewelry and has applications in the electronics and computer industries (and doubtless some more].
Click to expand...

well it does, and really what you’re describing is the ability to value labor. a jeweler inputs labor into gold, and it becomes jewelry. that labor is captured in the value of the piece.

no such mechanism is available for bitcoin
 
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