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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

dirtywick said:
i think you're the one pretending here. people aren't making transfers with bitcoin, they're buying it as an "investment" to get rich. quick. how does it work? well, you buy it, you hold onto it, and someone buys it for more than you later.
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Nope, you are still the pretender. If unimpeded transfers of bitcoin weren't possible then there would not have been any demand for it in the first place. Speculation has driven the price of many a product well beyond what it would otherwise be if it was just being traded for its intended use and bitcoin is no exception.

dirtywick said:
who are you sending money to? you're not. in a vast, vast majority of cases, nobody has bought anything or sent anyone money with it. be real lol
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really, if you have to lie about what's happening to make your argument, maybe it's not a good one.
 
have you ever transferred money to anyone with bitcoin? have you made a purchase with it?
 
steenkh said:
Criminals are demanding payment in Bitcoin all the time. Surely it must have happened at some point.
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i believe the driver of bitcoin demand is the get rich quick aspect of it. the appreciation of price is greater fool theory. once there are no more fools, there’s a liquidity run and it collapses and a ton of people lose their money.

this is the structure of a ponzi
 
dirtywick said:
i believe the driver of bitcoin demand is the get rich quick aspect of it. the appreciation of price is greater fool theory.
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I believe that criminals use the coins not as an investment but as a payment system that can’t be tracked. Normal people tend not to use it as payment anymore, because the Bitcoin value goes mostly up, and it is a hassle to constantly have to check the going rate.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bitcoin is a high risk investment, and that every investor could lose a ton of money with it, but there is no Ponzi scheme here: there is no borrowing involved, or attempt to lure more people to invest, and nobody is behind all this raking in the profits, except the investors themselves, and the miners.
 
well you’re both certainly free to decide for yourself. the essential aspects are a ponzi, the rest is window dressing imo
 
steenkh said:
I believe that criminals use the coins not as an investment but as a payment system that can’t be tracked. Normal people tend not to use it as payment anymore, because the Bitcoin value goes mostly up, and it is a hassle to constantly have to check the going rate.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bitcoin is a high risk investment, and that every investor could lose a ton of money with it, but there is no Ponzi scheme here: there is no borrowing involved, or attempt to lure more people to invest, and nobody is behind all this raking in the profits, except the investors themselves, and the miners.
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btw how does the value of bitcoin appreciate?
 
steenkh said:
PsionI0 has already told you that: exactly the same as for gold.
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gains from new investors? no other mechanism?

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not the same as gold. granted there is a speculative aspect with gold, difference is with gold you can input labor
 
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the viability of Bitcoin depends entirely on the trust in the Blockchain. Time and Quantum Computing mean that the days of security of the Blockchain are numbered.
 
dirtywick said:
gains from new investors? no other mechanism?

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not the same as gold. granted there is a speculative aspect with gold, difference is with gold you can input labor
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Not gains from new investors, Bitcoin is simply gaining in value according to demand and supply.

Most gold that is used for investment is not even changing hands. The gold I have bought has not moved at all, but sits in a depot somewhere. I just have an account that tells me that I have some gold, and it is rising in value all the time because Trump is working hard to destroy the world economy, so people want to place their money in gold. (My gold investment is minuscule, so I am not going to be rich).

Bitcoin has the disadvantage that it is not physical, so you can’t turn it into jewellery or electronics if all else fail, but otherwise it is the same. There is even quite a lot of work in it – computer work, not human labour – and not insignificant expenditures in computers and cooling to produce Bitcoins, so not everyone can mine it and get rich any more.

The mining operation has a negative impact on our planet which is why I think it should be banned.
 
i mean, that you can’t use it independent from trading it for money to generate any economic activity, literally it’s only defining feature is that it’s limited in supply, is a pretty big difference to gloss over imo
 
dirtywick said:
i mean, that you can’t use it independent from trading it for money to generate any economic activity, literally it’s only defining feature is that it’s limited in supply, is a pretty big difference to gloss over imo
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Its defining feature is that people want it, and they believe it is worth something. Think about valuable stamps, that are just old pieces of paper, or a broken chair that has belonged to someone famous. Their defining feature is that they are limited in supply.
 
calling those items an asset and a vehicle for investment that will generate a return would be a scam

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no surprise i can find hundreds of scams in collectibles, antiques, and art. similarities abound here
 
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i had an idea for a legitimate investment opportunity. basically, via the magic of the block chain, i have a guy that’ll paint 21 million paintings of you pay for a lot of his electricity, to create value through scarcity. and he’ll send these paintings anywhere in the world for free kind of quickly. and you can trade these paintings for money or other paintings. or just hold onto them, they’re scarce after all

does that sound dumb or worth a trillion dollars?
 
steenkh said:
They may be scams, but they are not Ponzi schemes.
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well i think the difference between them and bitcoin is the way it’s coded. those things exist as an object in space. bitcoin is an automated ponzi.

in any case some of them may be ponzi schemes. like the art divided into equities you can trade, that could absolutely be a ponzi
 
The Great Zaganza said:
the viability of Bitcoin depends entirely on the trust in the Blockchain. Time and Quantum Computing mean that the days of security of the Blockchain are numbered.
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If quantum computing ever manages to crack the SHA256 algorithm then I am sure that it can also be used to develop a more secure algorithm. So the most likely result would be a fork that uses the new algorithm.
 
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