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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

psionl0 said:
That was the nicest way that I could respond to an argument as stupid as "bitcoin only exists in the minds of its believers". You are a disgrace to all engineers for making it.

It's not even original crap either. Ignorant fools have been touting the "bitcoin is imaginary" line for years (usually cheered on by a peanut gallery that regards all arguments against bitcoin to be valid).
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I think those of us lucky enough to live in wealthy countries are a lot less wealthy than we like to believe. We're so far beyond our needs that our valuations of wealth are largely meaningless and almost completely irrational.

The value of bitcoin only exists in the minds of its believers. Similarly the majority of the value of diamonds only exists in the minds of people, created largely by marketing campaigns by the likes of De Beers. The difference is that diamonds physically exist irrespective of whatever value humans put on them, whereas bitcoin will vanish as soon as people stop believing it has value. A diamond can weather the storm of human irrationality, whereas bitcoin becomes just another fashion people lost interest in never to be seen again.

The reason I asked whether you want bitcoin to be an asset or a currency is because the only long term utility bitcoin could have is as a universal currency. However, for bitcoin to become a currency its value would have to initially stabilise and then slowly erode over time to make sure people invest it in productive activity rather than hoard it. Bitcoin as an asset that gains value is gambling that the veil is never lifted from investors' minds. The veil is always lifted eventually.

I think a universal currency emerging in my lifetime is vanishing small because the value of a currency has a political dimension. See problems in eurozone countries over the years for examples of this.
 
inflation is bad. but not as bad as deflation, which is what bitcoin is. there’s a lot of reasons why nobody uses it as currency and this maybe not the most obvious but the biggest strike against it. does an economy function when your labor is constantly being worth less; yeah your bitcoin can buy more but your labor is worth less. as the economy grows, so must the supply of currency to match. this is inflation. account for the value of labor.

its an asset in the same way a comic book collection is an asset.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
The value of bitcoin only exists in the minds of its believers.
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You can't backtrack now. You didn't post about the value of bitcoin. You posted about its existence: "Only in the same way as belief in a god makes that god exist for those who believe in it".

The simple fact is that regardless of whether you can touch/taste/see/hear/smell it or not, bitcoin is an asset whose value is not underpinned by anything else. Its only utility is in transferring value over long distances and across international boundaries in rapid time and at minimal cost and without 3rd party interference.

I have posted numerous times why bitcoin is not especially useful as a currency. You can either read about it or continue to believe that you are making original arguments.
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
The value of bitcoin only exists in the minds of its believers. Similarly the majority of the value of diamonds only exists in the minds of people, created largely by marketing campaigns by the likes of De Beers.
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Just to address this point, the value of any asset is whatever people are willing to pay for it. This is not some imaginary concept. It "real" money that you can get by selling the asset. That the value of an asset is or is not constant is neither here nor there. It still exists.

It could be argued that if nobody is willing to pay for something then it has no value so it shouldn't be classified as an "asset" but that is largely a matter of semantics. In bookkeeping, a fully depreciated asset has no residual value but it is still listed as an asset and its sale will still generate an income.
 
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psionl0 said:
You can't backtrack now. You didn't post about the value of bitcoin. You posted about its existence: "Only in the same way as belief in a god makes that god exist for those who believe in it".

The simple fact is that regardless of whether you can touch/taste/see/hear/smell it or not, bitcoin is an asset whose value is not underpinned by anything else. Its only utility is in transferring value over long distances and across international boundaries in rapid time and at minimal cost and without 3rd party interference.

I have posted numerous times why bitcoin is not especially useful as a currency. You can either read about it or continue to believe that you are making original arguments.
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The existence of bitcoin is EXACTLY the same as belief in a god making that god exist for those who believe in it.

Bitcoin Infrastructure <-> Churches
Bitcoin Algorithm <-> Scripture
Bitcoin Investor <-> Believer
Bitcoin <-> ???

The volatility of bitcoin makes it an extremely poor choice for transferring value compared to virtually any other asset.
 
you can find many sources on the topic of price vs value, it’s not some crazy concept by a grifter. lol
 
Ivor the Engineer said:
The existence of bitcoin is EXACTLY the same as belief in a god making that god exist for those who believe in it.

Bitcoin Infrastructure <-> Churches
Bitcoin Algorithm <-> Scripture
Bitcoin Investor <-> Believer
Bitcoin <-> ???

The volatility of bitcoin makes it an extremely poor choice for transferring value compared to virtually any other asset.
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Let me know when you get beyond the concrete operational stage in your development.
www.verywellmind.com

What Is Piaget's Theory of Cognitive Development?

Psychologist Jean Piaget's theory of cognitive development has 4 stages: sensorimotor, preoperational, concrete operational, and formal operational.
www.verywellmind.com www.verywellmind.com
 
dirtywick said:
finbold.com

Nearly 25% of all Bitcoin is now underwater

The proportion of BTC held at a loss has reached almost 25% — with a combined worth of roughly $388.95 billion.
finbold.com finbold.com

stat: nearly 25% of bitcoin was bought at a loss
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How do you buy something at a "loss" and why misquote the article? It clearly says it is "held at a loss".

Stripped of the sensationalism, all the article is saying is that the price of bitcoin has fallen 20% over the last 3 months.
 
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psionl0 said:
Ah. So this was just an irrelevant side rail. The fact still remains that most of the value of gold comes from people buying it, storing it and hoping to be able to sell it to somebody else in the future at a greater price than they paid for it themselves.
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So, not all of it then.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Value, not quantity.
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from my point of view i think that value is derived from demand. what people want something for is tied to its value

a little esoteric of a point though. if it’s primarily an investment vehicle i’d wonder why most people are doing something else with it
 
psionl0 said:
You appear to be reversing cause and effect. Gold jewellery is expensive because gold s expensive.
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gold is expensive because people want to buy gold.

edit

why do they want to buy gold? see the chart
 
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i don't agree with the claim that most of the value of gold comes from people wanting it for investment purposes because most of the demand for gold is for jewelry.
 
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