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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

or alternatively, there aren’t snipers and it’s just the founders rug pulling. they like to blame snipers since nobody can id the wallets
 
dirtywick said:
or alternatively, there aren’t snipers and it’s just the founders rug pulling. they like to blame snipers since nobody can id the wallets
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Could be, sure. ...Where I was coming from is, I was just wondering why sniping per se is dodgy, as the interviewer implies. Didn't quite get that, given how similar that is to quant trading, which is legal and above-board. ...Turns out, it isn't sniping per se that is dodgy --- unless I misread that --- but using the techniques of sniping in order to inflate prices (rather than simply make money off of legitimate arbitrage opportunities).
 
ok fair enough. haven’t see it yet and i’m going to watch the interview later today, but my guess would be he doesn’t buy the sniper excuse and knows a bald faced rug pull when he sees one. and when the wallets get traced out it’ll be the founders who took the liquidity, not snipers.

because they all say the same stuff in these interviews
 
Chanakya said:
Could be, sure. ...Where I was coming from is, I was just wondering why sniping per se is dodgy, as the interviewer implies. Didn't quite get that, given how similar that is to quant trading, which is legal and above-board. ...Turns out, it isn't sniping per se that is dodgy --- unless I misread that --- but using the techniques of sniping in order to inflate prices (rather than simply make money off of legitimate arbitrage opportunities).
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buying a huge quantity of coins at launch and selling milliseconds later wiping out liquidity using bots unavailable to the general public seems dodgy to me. is that possible in legitimate arbitrage opportunities?

and these guys sniped their own coin to beat the snipers to it, and used some of those funds to pay back influencers who got burned on the launch and kept the rest. and oh man, they got the president of argentina to present it as a government endorsed crypto program and rugged them. and he clearly didn’t think the post scam part of this out

also they talked a little utility and intrinsic value. pretty neat
 
blockchain.news

Adam 22 Allegedly Rug Pulls Newly Launched Cryptocurrency | Flash News Detail

According to AltcoinGordon, Adam 22 launched his own cryptocurrency, executed a rug pull, and subsequently deleted all related tweets. This incident highlights the risks associated with investing i
blockchain.news

with no end in sight to the constant stream of crypto scams, adam 22, famous podcaster who will do anything for money including very publicly chronicling his cuckoldry fetish, rugs audience
 
lol he’s fast. i just finished his last video yesterday

it’s not bad to see all these guys i hate spiraling down the toilet and having to explain their crimes. i wouldn’t mind seeing them get into some actual trouble once i a while though. say what you want about cancel culture but sometimes it’s the only justice you’ll get
 
Crypto is all about scamming, that's all there is to it.

Roundup by penguinz0 of Libra coin and advice for the morons that keep falling for the Crypto scam.

 

another coffeezilla video on libra. expands on sniping and the backstory of the guy who launched and sniped libra and melania coin, which are all these right wing economic policy world leaders scamming their own nations. as weird, and somehow unsurprising, as that is to write. there's also a great clip in there where they discuss how there's a network of crypto guys and influencers insider trading. it's just straight up theft at a massive scale in the billions. and they're doing it every couple of days now.

and i was called a conspiracy theorist for calling this out months ago by the guy who won an argument in this thread a decade ago when i said it was open season for the scammers, they're in control now. oh well, some people need to learn the hard way. that's an earned i told you so, and it's going to sting me as much as it feels good to be right when they steal the crypto strategic reserves they're pushing. that one is going to suck, that's my money too they'll be stealing.
 
dirtywick said:
buying a huge quantity of coins at launch and selling milliseconds later wiping out liquidity using bots unavailable to the general public seems dodgy to me. is that possible in legitimate arbitrage opportunities?

and these guys sniped their own coin to beat the snipers to it, and used some of those funds to pay back influencers who got burned on the launch and kept the rest. and oh man, they got the president of argentina to present it as a government endorsed crypto program and rugged them. and he clearly didn’t think the post scam part of this out

also they talked a little utility and intrinsic value. pretty neat
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Sorry, took my time responding! I'd seen your post addressed to me, but I'd wanted to watch the rest of the vid before I commented, and maybe the others linked here as well, because maybe they discuss this specific matter there. ...Well, I still haven't been able to get around to doing that! So anyway, let me just go ahead and ask this already, as someone that is not in the least familiar with things crypto.

My question is: What exactly would be a "pump and dump", or a "rug pull", in terms of crypto? (To be clear: I'm not asking for definitions here. Ok, let me just explain where I'm coming from.)

I'm familiar with stock markets and also credit instruments and credit hybrids. While I'm not directly familiar with commodity and (fiat) currency and real estate market dynamics, but I have some idea about those latter three as well, sure. Basis all of those, I can say that a pump and dump would involve manipulating markets in order to inflate prices beyond reasonable levels, and then exiting to book profits.

But of course, that whole thing is predicated on there being a "reasonable levels", aka an intrinsic value. In as much as crypto simply has no intrinsic value at all, I'm wondering: What exactly is a pump and dump in the context of crypto? (Or maybe, put differently: When would profit booking by large operators not amount to a pump and dump in the context of crypto? Answering that negative question also, might help clearly answer the original question as well.)


...Should you know this, or anyone else familiar with crypto, then I'd appreciate a clear answer. Thanks!
 
pump and dump is basically when an entity buys up an existing crypto to create the appearance that it’s value is rising organically, then when sufficient retail buyers have put money in, they decide to pull their holdings and leave the retail buyers holding the now worthless coin, aka the bag. this is often done with “utility” coin.

a rug pull is basically the same thing, but with a brand new crypto coin. this is basically all meme coins.

these are both often accompanied by paying influencers to advertise the crypto to their fans, often without disclosing it’s a paid ad. a pump and dump example would be doge coin when elon musk pumped it, and there are several rug pulls in this thread recently
 
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With new coins those that create the coin make sure they keep most of them for themselves and use their inside information to manipulate the value and choose the right moment to dump.
 
of course, there are probably many minor points and nuances i freely admit i may have gotten wrong with the above.
 
dirtywick said:
pump and dump is basically when an entity buys up an existing crypto to create the appearance that it’s value is rising organically, then when sufficient retail buyers have put money in, they decide to pull their holdings and leave the retail buyers holding
the now worthless coin, aka the bag. this is often done with “utility” coin.

a rug pull is basically the same thing, but with a brand new crypto coin. this is basically all meme coins.

these are both often accompanied by paying influencers to advertise the crypto to their fans, often without disclosing it’s a paid ad. a pump and dump example would be doge coin when elon musk pumped it, and there are several rug pulls in this thread recently
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Why "now worthless"? That goes to the heart of the conceptual question I was asking.

(I mean, it's always been worthless, and always will be, in as much as it has no intrinsic value. But why is it any more worthless after the large operators sell, than before?)

(Or do you mean that if after the major operators exit, then if by simple demand and supply pressures the prices tank, then that's a pump and dump; and if, like bitcoin, it stays afloat, then it is not? ...Just trying to understand this clearly!)


dirtywick said:
pump and dump is basically when an entity buys up an existing crypto to create the appearance that it’s value is rising organically, then when sufficient retail buyers have put money in, they decide to pull their holdings and leave the retail buyers holding the now worthless coin, aka the bag. this is often done with “utility” coin.

a rug pull is basically the same thing, but with a brand new crypto coin. this is basically all meme coins.

these are both often accompanied by paying influencers to advertise the crypto to their fans, often without disclosing it’s a paid ad. a pump and dump example would be doge coin when elon musk pumped it, and there are several rug pulls in this thread recently
Click to expand...

Got that, thanks!


Andy_Ross said:
With new coins those that create the coin make sure they keep most of them for themselves and use their inside information to manipulate the value and choose the right moment to dump.
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Sorry, what insider info? Unlike stock, there's nothing actually happening there, no underlying business (unlike stock and credit) and no underlying economy (unlike fiat currency) in context of which something might happen, is there? No info at all, to crypto, as far as I can see, insider or otherwise! (Or do you mean information as regards money flows to and from the market, and/or new regulations and laws and such?)


dirtywick said:
of course, there are probably many minor points and nuances i freely admit i may have gotten wrong with the above.
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Fair enough.
 
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Chanakya said:
Why "now worthless"? That goes to the heart of the conceptual question I was asking.

(I mean, it's always been worthless, and always will be, in as much as it has no intrinsic value. But why is it any more worthless after the large operators sell, than before?)

(Or do you mean that if after the major operators exit, then if by simple demand and supply pressures the prices tank, then that's a pump and dump; and if, like bitcoin, it stays afloat, then it is not? ...Just trying to understand this clearly!)
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it’s all, at best, a medium of exchange, right? nobody wants bitcoin or crypto, they want the dollars. so when the liquidity is gone, the cash, it’s worthless. they pump up the hype, get people to buy, and take all their cash back and the other buyers cash. all that’s left is crypto tokens. often people almost completely stop trading in them as well after the dump.

some of the crypto that’s been around a while, the “utility” crypto, is still traded after a big downturn. many are not.

but i agree there isn’t any sound investment fundamentals behind any of it. i’m not an investment expert either so take it for what it’s worth.
 
Chanakya said:
Sorry, what insider info? Unlike stock, there's nothing actually happening there, no underlying business (unlike stock and credit) and no underlying economy (unlike fiat currency) in context of which something might happen, is there? No info at all, to crypto, as far as I can see, insider or otherwise! (Or do you mean information as regards money flows to and from the market, and/or new regulations and laws and such?)
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They know exactly when the coin will be 'live' for trading and can put trades in to their software ready to pump and then at the right moment dump before trading even starts. Plus, they already own a huge percentage of the available coins so they win whatever happens.

Anything to do with Crypto is now just a huge scam and will be until it is properly regulated.
 
dirtywick said:
it’s all, at best, a medium of exchange, right? nobody wants bitcoin or crypto, they want the dollars. so when the liquidity is gone, the cash, it’s worthless. they pump up the hype, get people to buy, and take all their cash back and the other buyers cash. all that’s left is crypto tokens. often people almost completely stop trading in them as well after the dump.

some of the crypto that’s been around a while, the “utility” crypto, is still traded after a big downturn. many are not.

but
i agree there isn’t any sound investment fundamentals behind any of it. i’m not an investment expert either so take it for what it’s worth.
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Haha, ok, got that!

(Not disagreeing with you, obviously. You get where I was coming from, I was just trying to fill in my ignorance about these conceptual matters when it comes to crypto. I think that covers it, where you say that there's no sound investment fundamentals to crypto!)

(In practice there often isn't to stock either, to be fair, given the crazy multiples they often trade at, and sometimes totally disconnected from actual profitability. But in theory at least there is, in theory at any rate secondary markets are simply a price discovery mechanism. And in any case, value investors always go looking for method within the madness, ...and sometimes/often do find it!)
 
Andy_Ross said:
They know exactly when the coin will be 'live' for trading and can put trades in to their software ready to pump and then at the right moment dump before trading even starts. Plus, they already own a huge percentage of the available coins so they win whatever happens.
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Oh, right at that stage, is it. That's 100% not legal in stock. Apparently it is ok in crypto though, at least per regulation. (That's what I gathered from the portion of the vid I'd watched, the one you'd linked some time back.)


Andy_Ross said:
Anything to do with Crypto is now just a huge scam and will be until it is properly regulated.
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Agreed! :thumbsup:

(Personally I'd like to see those regulations cover a clear warning to investors that they're "investing" in a scrip that is fundamentally worthless! ...I'm not kidding, promotions of mutual funds, for example, do need to carry clear qualifications and disclosures, likewise in any IPO prospectus, so why not here?)

(eta: I'm not really familiar with crypto. It could be the case that crypto issues do carry that warning to investors. If that's the case, then scratch what I just said within parentheses above. If not, then that should definitely be among the regulations necessary. It's a small thing, that kind of disclosure, but it often helps. Not always, though, but sometimes is often enough!)
 
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