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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

Microtransactons are transferrable and re-sellable in a lot of games though - the Hat Economy in Team Fortress 2 for example is getting along fine without NFTs
 
ponderingturtle said:
There is also the point that you are moving money instead of bitcoin so you have two more transactions first to change the money into bitcoin then to change the bitcoin back into money.
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That's the whole point. You are not transferring fiat so you don't have to jump through hoops or convince anybody that your transfer is 100% legitimate. Maybe in the good old USA you can fling money around the world with gay abandon but in many parts of the world this is much more difficult. There may be costs associated with converting to the local currency (if that is necessary).

ponderingturtle said:
I still wonder why these people are trying to anonymously transfer large sums of money to africa.
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Better ban it just in case somebody has a nefarious purpose. Right?
 
I've been using BTC for it's supposed intended purpose since around 2016. It's terrible. There's a reason why people that talk about transactions expand it to the movement of obscene amounts of money. Because normal transactions amounts do not make sense for the vast majority of people.
 
psionl0 said:
Not to the transferor it isn't. The fact that bitcoin uses proof of work does not justify you making false non-sequiturs.
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The ability to shuffle those costs onto people that didn't ask to be part of the transaction isn't exactly a selling point on how valuable this can be to the world.
 
rdwight said:
I've been using BTC for it's supposed intended purpose since around 2016. It's terrible. There's a reason why people that talk about transactions expand it to the movement of obscene amounts of money. Because normal transactions amounts do not make sense for the vast majority of people.
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Segwit and the lightning network were supposed to deal with the scalability problem but I haven't heard much from them lately.

gnome said:
The ability to shuffle those costs onto people that didn't ask to be part of the transaction isn't exactly a selling point on how valuable this can be to the world.
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It depends on how much mining adds to the cost of electricity to non bitcoin users but as your quote demonstrates, proof of work is bad.
 
psionl0 said:
Segwit and the lightning network were supposed to deal with the scalability problem but I haven't heard much from them lately.
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To be clear, it's not just a transaction speed issue. It is the entire process. For operating expenses a regular purchase would have to be scheduled weekly, with a processing time of a few days. Stable coins weren't really a big thing back when I first started using so price fluctuations made larger purchases unsafe. Price changes would make additional payment's necessary during congested times due to vendors receiving less on drops, and not crediting more on increases. Add in occasional wallet issues, no way to get back payment once sent and lack of easy accounting.

To be fair though at times for services we need btc was the only option for starting payments and testing things. Especially with eastern European guys and the unbanked. But once things were consistent and established with them wire transfers were a much easier method of payment. Cheaper after accounting for everything that goes into using btc too.
 
psionl0 said:
ponderingturtle said:
There is also the point that you are moving money instead of bitcoin so you have two more transactions first to change the money into bitcoin then to change the bitcoin back into money.
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That's the whole point.

<snip>.
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No - "the whole point" was to easily and cheaply send someone on another continent $10K, not to generate more transactions.

So, when you asked:
psionl0 said:
Really? How easy or cheap is it to transfer say $10,000 to a relative in a different continent?
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There were answers given here. You can easily compare the convenience and transaction fees of:
  • Tranferring $10,000 via Paypal, OFX, Wise or Polygon - you have one transaction and relatively low fees.
  • Transferring $10,000 to Bitcoin, sending to someone, transferring back to dollars - you have three transactions and your fees are dependent on Bitcoin fluctuation. (ETA - and you have to teach your overseas relative how to open a Bitcoin wallet etc.)

Do you plan on honestly engaging with these answers, or continuing to Gish Gallop?
 
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carlitos said:
No - "the whole point" was to easily and cheaply send someone on another continent $10K, not to generate more transactions.

So, when you asked:

There were answers given here. You can easily compare the convenience and transaction fees of:
  • Tranferring $10,000 via Paypal, OFX, Wise or Polygon - you have one transaction and relatively low fees.
  • Transferring $10,000 to Bitcoin, sending to someone, transferring back to dollars - you have three transactions and your fees are dependent on Bitcoin fluctuation. (ETA - and you have to teach your overseas relative how to open a Bitcoin wallet etc.)

Do you plan on honestly engaging with these answers, or continuing to Gish Gallop?
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OK If you are saying that any two people in the world can set up Paypal, OFX, Wise or Polygon accounts and transfer money between them with gay abandon then I will take your word for it. I was under the impression that you could run into currency control issues but I could be wrong.
 
The dishonest framing, hyperbole and weaselly language make me suspicious of psionl0's motives. I wasn't aware that anyone needed to transfer $10,000 with "gay abandon" in order to function ok in daily life. PayPal has 400 million subscribers, so most of us with overseas relatives could probably sort that out without too much trouble, but not sure how gay it would be. Much gayer and abandonny (and safer!) than teaching them about the nuances of cryptocurrency, I suspect. On the downside, we are enriching Peter Thiel instead of Matt Damon with our boring PayPal transaction.

If the current top of the Bitcoin pyramid want liquidity to come in so that they can cash out of their fake money, I'd prefer that they didn't do so at the expense of me or my overseas relatives anyway.
 
carlitos said:
The dishonest framing, hyperbole and weaselly language make me suspicious of psionl0's motives. I wasn't aware that anyone needed to transfer $10,000 with "gay abandon" in order to function ok in daily life. PayPal has 400 million subscribers, so most of us with overseas relatives could probably sort that out without too much trouble, but not sure how gay it would be. Much gayer and abandonny (and safer!) than teaching them about the nuances of cryptocurrency, I suspect. On the downside, we are enriching Peter Thiel instead of Matt Damon with our boring PayPal transaction.

If the current top of the Bitcoin pyramid want liquidity to come in so that they can cash out of their fake money, I'd prefer that they didn't do so at the expense of me or my overseas relatives anyway.
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What I am getting out of all of this projection is that there is more to PayPal than just installing wallet software, giving somebody your wallet ID and waiting for the coins to come rolling in.

Of course, it would be difficult to turn people against cryptos if you didn't use emotional expressions like "pyramid", "fake money" (and implying that your transactions have to go through Matt Damon). This formula has been used for 12 years because anti-bitcoiners hate sticking to the facts.
 
psionl0 said:
That's the whole point. You are not transferring fiat so you don't have to jump through hoops or convince anybody that your transfer is 100% legitimate. Maybe in the good old USA you can fling money around the world with gay abandon but in many parts of the world this is much more difficult. There may be costs associated with converting to the local currency (if that is necessary).
Click to expand...

But the goal was to get them $10,000 not 1/2 bitcoin or whatever. You need it in a currency to spend it.
 
psionl0 said:
What I am getting out of all of this projection is that there is more to PayPal than just installing wallet software, giving somebody your wallet ID and waiting for the coins to come rolling in.
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I'm guessing that you don't use PayPal then. No, you don't give them a "wallet ID;" you give them your email or phone number. It works in the normal world with normal stuff that people know how to use. Like dollars.

psionl0 said:
Of course, it would be difficult to turn people against cryptos if you didn't use emotional expressions like "pyramid", "fake money" (and implying that your transactions have to go through Matt Damon). This formula has been used for 12 years because anti-bitcoiners hate sticking to the facts.
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"Turning people against cryptos" is a noble cause. Crypto currency is obviously a pyramid scheme, and it is literally fake money.

Me saying that these transactions are "enriching matt Damon" doesn't mean that I hinted that your transactions go through him. Anything that happens on "crypto dot com" or the associated app enriches Matt Damon though. What percentage of transactions is that? (ETA - crypto dot com claims to have 10 million users, and there are somewhere around 50 million crypto wallets in existence I think)
 
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carlitos said:
I'm guessing that you don't use PayPal then. No, you don't give them a "wallet ID;" you give them your email or phone number.
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Another forum I use asks for donations via Paypal. I don't have a Paypal account but there was a way to do so using my credit card, so I did. But last time I tried to do so Paypal insisted I give them my mobile phone number. So no more donations from me, I'm afraid.
 
carlitos said:
"Turning people against cryptos" is a noble cause. Crypto currency is obviously a pyramid scheme, and it is literally fake money.
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This was proven to be crap back in 2010 and repeatedly ever since. Unfortunately there is no shortage of jokers who think that they have tumbled on a "new" insight about bitcoin and they turn up regular as clockwork.
 
Pixel42 said:
Another forum I use asks for donations via Paypal. I don't have a Paypal account but there was a way to do so using my credit card, so I did. But last time I tried to do so Paypal insisted I give them my mobile phone number. So no more donations from me, I'm afraid.
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Can you send them some Dogecoin?
 
carlitos said:
Can you send them some Dogecoin?
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Dodgy coin?

This rally in a bear market is a magical opportunity to liquidate all crypto assets.

Into surprise surprise?
US dollars

Bitcoin currently 43864.11 (er US dollars)
 
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