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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

Suddenly said:
None of this is a problem with fiat currency as a concept. It is some criticism of current policy that I mostly agree with mixed in with libertarian conspiracy theory mad-libs that make me giggle. In some sick way I'm glad some of y'all are still out there.
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You think the USG is printing counterfeit money to subsidize the stock market?
 
trustbutverify said:
You think the USG is printing counterfeit money to subsidize the stock market?
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If printed money is subsidising the stock market then it is being done indirectly. The Fed buys up government bonds giving the bond sellers newly minted cash to buy into the stock market if they wish.

Fiat would work great if the USG wasn't perpetually running massive budget deficits. They are on their knees begging and screaming for a total economic collapse.
 
trustbutverify said:
You think the USG is printing counterfeit money to subsidize the stock market?
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That's where mostly comes in. Printing counterfeit money is nonsense but the general principle that government policies are essentially dumping money into the market, sure.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with fiat currency.
 
psionl0 said:
Fiat would work great if the USG wasn't perpetually running massive budget deficits. They are on their knees begging and screaming for a total economic collapse.
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The deficits they run aren't the problem. They get interest rates low enough to where there is going to be a net return if the money is used constructively. If anything they aren't borrowing enough. It's that giving the money to corporations to do stock buybacks and to rich people to hide in overpriced real estate and etc. produce little or no return on investment. Making the country work more efficiently via infrastructure programs, universal health care, making so having a kid before 35 isn't economically reckless for most people, etc.
 
psionl0 said:
If printed money is subsidising the stock market then it is being done indirectly. The Fed buys up government bonds giving the bond sellers newly minted cash to buy into the stock market if they wish.

Fiat would work great if the USG wasn't perpetually running massive budget deficits. They are on their knees begging and screaming for a total economic collapse.
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The Fed does a whole lot more than buying bonds. They make private loans to banks and hedge funds who bid up asset markets. This is all common knowledge in finance, not conspiracy theory. The Swiss central bank is quite open about it, and literally monetizes US equities on its balance sheet.
 
Suddenly said:
That's where mostly comes in. Printing counterfeit money is nonsense but the general principle that government policies are essentially dumping money into the market, sure.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with fiat currency.
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Huh? Fiat currency is what enables central banks to create limitless money for private benefit.

And how is bidding up asset markets in perpetuity remotely fair for the people who don't own any assets? It's a direct subsidy of the super-rich and upper class by central banks. Why are people perplexed at the homeless problem in the US, when the price of housing is skyrocketing?

Instead, homelessness gets blamed on drug abuse by dumb Republicans, and wealth disparity and poverty gets blamed on capitalism and racism by stupid Democrats.
 
Suddenly said:
The deficits they run aren't the problem. They get interest rates low enough to where there is going to be a net return if the money is used constructively. If anything they aren't borrowing enough. It's that giving the money to corporations to do stock buybacks and to rich people to hide in overpriced real estate and etc. produce little or no return on investment. Making the country work more efficiently via infrastructure programs, universal health care, making so having a kid before 35 isn't economically reckless for most people, etc.
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Massive deficits ARE a problem if the Fed has to constantly monetize (at least part of) the government debt to keep interest rates down. It sets the stage for high inflation if the money printing isn't matched by a rise in GDP which is the current scenario.

It all looks rosy until the day it isn't.
 
The Swiss central bank’s $90 billion stocks portfolio is insane

The Fed does the same thing, using loans to hedge funds as a proxy because it can't legally own stocks or stock derivatives on its balance sheet. It's a great thing for people like me, who own stocks, real estate, and other assets including bitcoin.

For the people working three jobs who have to choose between food or medicine, not so much.
 
Tippit said:
The Fed does a whole lot more than buying bonds. They make private loans to banks and hedge funds who bid up asset markets. This is all common knowledge in finance, not conspiracy theory. The Swiss central bank is quite open about it, and literally monetizes US equities on its balance sheet.
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The Fed may be lending money to asset speculators but it is its QE programs that are essential to keep the debt cycle alive. Without QE, the bond market would be a giant Ponzi scheme.
 
Tippit said:
And how is bidding up asset markets in perpetuity remotely fair for the people who don't own any assets?
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Not fair at all, but not a matter inherent to the currency but abuse of same. If the money being "printed" as you like to say were distributed to the bottom of the economic ladder there is more economic growth to offset the inflationary effect. When it goes to the top they just pump up speculative assets.

Real estate especially because the legal environment makes it an awesome tax dodge and money laundering device. Another issue having nothing to do with the currency.
 
Suddenly said:
Not fair at all, but not a matter inherent to the currency but abuse of same. If the money being "printed" as you like to say were distributed to the bottom of the economic ladder there is more economic growth to offset the inflationary effect. When it goes to the top they just pump up speculative assets.
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Of course it's inherent. The unlimited profits available from creating money is irresistible for human beings. The corruption is guaranteed by the system. The people who get the free money get everything for nothing, then receive rents on those assets. The people who sell or hold assets into these counterfeit bids, receive counterfeit subsidized profits. The people who never had any assets to begin with, get priced out of homes, stocks, bonds, and everything else, and are left with higher rents, and now, finally, the beginnings of consumer price inflation.

Real estate especially because the legal environment makes it an awesome tax dodge and money laundering device. Another issue having nothing to do with the currency.
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Real estate has everything to do with the supply of fiat money. The avalanche of unlimited fiat money against the limited supply of real estate means prices skyrocket. The people who owned property prior to this get a windfall, first time buyers and homeless people get destroyed. Everything to do with our corrupt fiat money system, and little to do with anything else.
 
My interest right now in currency is the desire to make an illicit purchase. Are they still good for that? Some better than others?
 
BobTheCoward said:
My interest right now in currency is the desire to make an illicit purchase. Are they still good for that? Some better than others?
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As long as the crypto wallet can't be traced back to you, you can make relatively anonymous payments. Of course, buying through a crypto exchange won't do it. You will need to get some stranger to make a deposit into your wallet without telling anybody else about it.

Monero is the preferred crypto of criminals since it is designed so that transactions are totally anonymous.
 
What we have here is value expansion by proliferation.

2 trillion looks stable for now but could easily drop below one.
 
Anyone have thoughts as to which cryptos have the most utility?

I've read that ethereum is useful in the sense that it can automate execution of contract agreements without the usual middleman.

Solana aims to do something similar but it's method is faster and uses less resources.

VeChain is supposed to ensure authenticity of products and prevent knock offs. BMW and Sam's Club have supposedly signed on.

Just curious if anyone has been keeping an eye on any they feel might go the distance because of actual utility.
 
The_Animus said:
Anyone have thoughts as to which cryptos have the most utility?

I've read that ethereum is useful in the sense that it can automate execution of contract agreements without the usual middleman.

Solana aims to do something similar but it's method is faster and uses less resources.

VeChain is supposed to ensure authenticity of products and prevent knock offs. BMW and Sam's Club have supposedly signed on.

Just curious if anyone has been keeping an eye on any they feel might go the distance because of actual utility.
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Good query and also, does value appreciation follow, or will they range against us dollar like all major currencies?
 
The_Animus said:
Anyone have thoughts as to which cryptos have the most utility?
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None. And by definition they never will.

Crypto can't decide if it's a currency, a Pay Pal Alternative for when you want to buy child porn and black tar heroin on the Dark Web, a get rich quick scheme, or financial guerilla warfare and every version of what it is undercuts every other version of what it is.
 
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