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Merged Bitcoin - Part 3

psionl0 said:
This forum is supposed to be about critical thinking but this thread attracts nutcasery that would do a CTer or religious zealot proud.
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If you stop posting here that number might just drop to zero.

psionl0 said:
Why? Is the price about to collapse permanently (this time)?
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No, the price's just unreliable and varies wildly. You know this, of course. You've long abandoned any pretense of debating this topic critically.
 
healthmanifested said:
What do you all think about BitCoin? I have heard good and bad. I have heard it's really hard to convert it to US dollars.
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Well. You need computer on internet. That's about it.
You start account on any exchange, transfer BTC from your wallet to exchange, which is the biggest loss of value, as you have to pay the cloud for the transaction. After that, flipping BTC to USD and back on the exchange is fast and cheap. Then you have to send USD from exchange to your bank, which is usually also pretty cheap.
For quick and small investing you keep your BTC at the exchange, selling it in relatively short term. If you want to use BTC as currency, you have to use the BTC->BTC transfer, and of course, money on exchange are not really yours, so if you want the BTC to be really yours, you have to transfer any BTC you buy to your private wallet, and pay for the transaction again.
I certainly wouldn't call it hard. But depends on your computer literacy.
 
Belz... said:
No, the price's just unreliable and varies wildly. You know this, of course. You've long abandoned any pretense of debating this topic critically.
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Investment is always gamble. True BTC offers biger gains and losses, compared to stockmarket or commodities, but in essence it's just the same.
 
Dr.Sid said:
Investment is always gamble. True BTC offers biger gains and losses, compared to stockmarket or commodities, but in essence it's just the same.
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Yes but gambling is basically all BTC is good for. I mean, if that's your thing, go with it, but there are some associated risks beyond your BTC losing value.
 
Belz... said:
Well, sorry to tell you. It's happened that some BTC wallets were, ahem, "lost" in the chaos that is blockchain.

Better to speculate on the stock market. At least you're dealing with real money and real commodities.
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Wallets, ahem, "lost" ? Such precise and well supported information !
 
Dr.Sid said:
Wallets, ahem, "lost" ? Such precise and well supported information !
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Now you're just being ridiculous. We've talked about this at length in this thread. Yes, wallets "lost". As in poof! Gone.

In most cases it's due to an error from the user, but it can still happen, and it's a lot harder to recover your money in BTC than say with a bank.
 
Belz... said:
Now you're just being ridiculous. We've talked about this at length in this thread. Yes, wallets "lost". As in poof! Gone.

In most cases it's due to an error from the user, but it can still happen, and it's a lot harder to recover your money in BTC than say with a bank.
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So lost or "lost" ? What does it even mean ? Can you support your claim or not ?
 
Dr.Sid said:
So lost or "lost" ?
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What are you babbling about? You're the one who put them in quotation marks to begin with.

The BTC are lost, and it may be very difficult or impossible to recover them. Wouldn't you call that a risk associated with trading BTC?

Can you support your claim or not ?
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You know, sometimes I wonder if a poster's request for "support" of a "claim" is genuine, or if they're playing games. I have a hard time believing that someone who's either followed this thread over time or that has had any interest in Bitcoin would be ignorant of this issue.

The thing, of course, is that if you call these posters' bluff, they'll just pretend that you can't support your claim. it's a nice trick that allows them to perpetually deny evidence presented, and which shows that dishonesty is a lot easier than honesty.

https://www.investopedia.com/news/20-all-btc-lost-unrecoverable-study-shows/

https://nypost.com/2018/05/26/i-accidentally-threw-away-60m-worth-of-bitcoin/

https://fortune.com/2017/11/25/lost-bitcoins/

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/20/man-lost-127-million-worth-of-bitcoins-and-city-wont-let-him-look.html

Now, you can argue as I have that this is mostly their own fault, but it's risk that you normally don't run with a bank account with actual money in it.
 
Belz... said:
If you stop posting here that number might just drop to zero.
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If you are trying to suggest that all arguments in this thread against bitcoin are sound then you have long abandoned any pretense of debating this topic critically.

Belz... said:
Well, sorry to tell you. It's happened that some BTC wallets were, ahem, "lost" in the chaos that is blockchain.
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If you wanted to remind us that bitcoin wallets can be lost or stolen then fine but don't suggest that the blockchain is somehow faulty. Only somebody who was totally ignorant would make such a remark.

Belz... said:
Better to speculate on the stock market. At least you're dealing with real money and real commodities.
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And there we have it. Bitcoin is "not real". That is what is driving your irrational fear of bitcoin.
 
psionl0 said:
If you are trying to suggest that all arguments in this thread against bitcoin are sound then you have long abandoned any pretense of debating this topic critically.
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Wow, that's pretty bad logic, right there. I'll let you think about why what you said has no relation to what you were responding to.

If you wanted to remind us that bitcoin wallets can be lost or stolen then fine but don't suggest that the blockchain is somehow faulty. Only somebody who was totally ignorant would make such a remark.
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Only true believers think blockchain is safe.

And there we have it. Bitcoin is "not real".
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Again, that's not what I said and what you quoted. Why do you lie so obviously?
 
Belz... said:
What are you babbling about? You're the one who put them in quotation marks to begin with.
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No, it was you in post 690.

Belz... said:
The BTC are lost, and it may be very difficult or impossible to recover them. Wouldn't you call that a risk associated with trading BTC?

You know, sometimes I wonder if a poster's request for "support" of a "claim" is genuine, or if they're playing games. I have a hard time believing that someone who's either followed this thread over time or that has had any interest in Bitcoin would be ignorant of this issue.

The thing, of course, is that if you call these posters' bluff, they'll just pretend that you can't support your claim. it's a nice trick that allows them to perpetually deny evidence presented, and which shows that dishonesty is a lot easier than honesty.

Now, you can argue as I have that this is mostly their own fault, but it's risk that you normally don't run with a bank account with actual money in it.
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No, I genuinely wondered what you are talking about. And the fact you wrote "lost" confused me even more. You made it sounds like BTC can just vanish , by itself.
Besides all these being user error, it's not like the wallet is lost. You just don't have access to it. IMHO it's important, if technical, detail. Bitcoins itself won't vanish, not wallets.

And yes, money in bank cannot be lost this way. Your physical wallet can be. Brick of gold too.

Actually I thought you are speaking about exchange hacks, which are quite common, sadly. Sure, you are only vulnerable as long as you keep your money on the exchange .. but for short term trading, that's what you usually do.

You simply explained yourself poorly, and when asked, didn't improve it a bit, only made it worse. If you linked one case in your first post, all would be easier.
 
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Dr.Sid said:
No, it was you in post 690.
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My mistake. Yes, lost.

Besides all these being user error, it's not like the wallet is lost. You just don't have access to it.
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What's the difference? If you can never get hold of that money anymore, it's lost, quotation marks or not. And it's not all user error, but even if it were, it is an inherent risk of trading in BTC, which was my initial point.

Actually I thought you are speaking about exchange hacks, which are quite common, sadly.
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Those _were_ included.

The point is that BTC can be lost in ways that are not usually risks with investments. That is a risk of BTC, which is why I brought it up when it was asked. I don't know why it was so controversial when it turns out you know what I was talking about.
 
For those of you wanting some Bitcoin related infortainment,

All Lawyers Are Bastards (ALAB), has a podcast episode covering the Faketoshi lawsuits. It's a lawsuit about a guy claiming to be behind the creation of Bitcoin who allegedly stole a bunch of bitcoins worth billions of dollars from his dead business partner.

The man, Craig Wright, claims to 1/3 of the group behind Satoshi Nakamoto, though is widely regarded as a liar, hence "Faketoshi".

It's an interesting lawsuit because Craig is a repeat liar and digs an immensely deep whole for himself throughout the legal process.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-3-faketoshi-the-perfect-client/id1477059799?i=1000449092346
 
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Belz... said:
Wow, that's pretty bad logic, right there. I'll let you think about why what you said has no relation to what you were responding to.
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You claimed that the amount of nutcasery in this thread would drop to zero if I didn't post here. If you don't believe that the arguments by others are sound then you were telling a bald faced lie.

Belz... said:
Only true believers think blockchain is safe.
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Then you are totally ignorant. Bitcoin wallets can be lost or stolen, exchanges or personal computers can be hacked but nobody can hack the blockchain.

You should learn a few facts about this new fangled technology before you go off half cocked and attack any arguers who don't denounce bitcoin.

Belz... said:
Again, that's not what I said and what you quoted. Why do you lie so obviously?
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Your post distinguished between bitcoin and "real" money and "real" commodities. You can't squirm your way out of this one.
 
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